U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-07-2012, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,144 posts, read 5,452,573 times
Reputation: 4020

Advertisements

Regarding the ability of HOA's to enforce it's CC&Rs:

K9 Shrink v. Ridgewood Meadows Water and Homeowners Association
Colorado Court of Appeals, June 9, 2011
___ P.3d ___, 2011 Colo. App. LEXIS 840
Homeowner association; amendment of covenants in court proceeding; canine activity covenant; claim preclusion.
Plaintiffs, K9 Shrink, LLC ("K9Shrink") and Gail Clark, who operated K9Shrink on her property, appeal the trial court’s entry of summary judgment in favor of Ridgewood Meadows Water and Homeowners Association ("HOA"). Clients of K9Shrink brought their dogs to Clark’s home where she counseled the owners to help them communicate with their dogs. However, Clark’s home was subject to Ridgewood’s covenants. The HOA determined that K9Shrink’s activities constituted commercial pet-related activity prohibited by the Covenant, as amended in 2007. In response, Clark sought a declaratory judgment that the Amendments were unenforceable and an injunction prohibiting Ridgewood from enforcing the Amendments against Plaintiff. The HOA counterclaimed, seeking an injunction to prevent plaintiffs from conducting commercial pet-related activity. The trial court found for the HOA, denying Clark’s claim for declaratory judgment regarding enforceability of the Covenant; the court also enjoined Clark "from operating any commercial pet-related activity," including K9Shrink, on her property.

The court of appeals affirms. The court found that issue preclusion barred Clark’s challenge to the validity of the restrictive covenant. She had received notice, under section 38-33.3-217(7)(d), C.R.S. (2010), of a 2007 district court proceeding to amend the Covenant’s declarations to prohibit commercial pet-related activity. Clark chose not to appear at that time. The language of the restrictive covenant is clear and unambiguous. Accordingly, the permanent injunction against Clark was appropriate. The record supports a finding irreparable harm suffered by the Ridgewood neighbors by Clark’s continuing violation of the covenant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-07-2012, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,144 posts, read 5,452,573 times
Reputation: 4020
Default IC's foolish statements regarding inapplicability of D&O insurance

  1. It's not unusual. "Very often a disgruntled homeowner will sue the condo association and board members individually because the plaintiff believes it will put tremendous pressure on the board," says Robert Galvin, a partner at Davis, Malm & D'Agostine PC in Boston who specializes in representing condos and co-ops. "The homeowner's lawyer can say, 'If you agree to rescind this policy my client disagrees with, we'll drop the lawsuit.'"
  2. It's usually not successful. Typically cases against individual board members get dismissed because there's no legal basis to sue a board member personally for actions taken in a board capacity. "In most cases, the first thing a lawyer would do is move to dismiss the lawsuit against the board members personally," says Galvin. "There's only a valid basis for a lawsuit when board members are acting outside the scope of their authority or not acting in good faith.
    "If the board decides it's going to plant beech trees, and the disgruntled homeowner says he wants pine, that lawsuit against individual board members isn't going to progress very far before a judge throws it out," says Galvin. "But if the board member is acting in a way that says, 'I don't like Bob Galvin, so I'm going to shut the flue for his fireplace,' a suit would likely be successful."
  3. Your association's insurance carrier will often defend you. You're likely covered if your association has directors and officers insurance. "All the associations we represent have D&O insurance, and their insurance company will defend them in such suits," says James Donnelly, president and CEO of Castle Group, a property management company in Plantation, Fla., that manages 55,000 association units. "Lawsuits against individual board members are rare, but when it happens, that's why you have insurance."
    "There may also be coverage under your association's general liability policy," says Bob Tankel, principal at Robert L. Tankel PA in Dunedin, Fla., a law firm that advises associations.
  4. You can't ignore it. "Assuming you have good insurance coverage, call your insurance agent and send a copy of the lawsuit to the agent by certified mail," advises Tankel. "Tell the agent, 'I was served with this on this date. You have until this date to respond. Please advise.' I also recommend that clients send a copy of the complaint to me as their association's lawyer."
  5. You may need personal representation. In some cases, you and your board shouldn't be represented by the same lawyer. "You need individual representation when it becomes apparent your interests are not the same as those of the board," says Galvin. "If the board is going to throw a board member under the bus, that board member needs individual representation."
    Your insurer typically makes the decision about whether board members need personal representation when it evaluates the case. "The board and a member could have potentially divergent interests," explains Tankel. "An attorney can represent people with divergent interests until those interests become irreconcilable."

    If you need individual representation, your insurer may not cover the cost. "The D&O carrier has the right to appoint counsel," says Galvin. "Look at the policy because it may not cover separate counsel. However, many people have personal umbrella liability policies, and some will cover you if you're sued in a nonprofit capacity. Or hire your own attorney and insist the association indemnify you based on the indemnity provision in your association's bylaws."
  6. Your board can protect its members for the future. "There are two things every association should do to minimize this sort of thing," says Galvin. "In addition to D&O insurance, the governing documents should contain an indemnity provision stating that if a board member is sued in connection with the member's board duties, the association will indemnify the board member. If the board member was operating in the honest and reasonable belief she was properly carrying out her responsibilities, the association will pay her legal fees and any judgment that may result."
  7. You should periodically review your coverage. "Make sure your insurance agent confirms that your policy covers things like equitable actions and nonmonetary relief," says Tankel. "Ninety percent of cases against boards are from owners seeking injunctive relief, saying, 'I want you to make the board do this or make it stop doing that.' Some major underwriters will cover only money damages.
    "Also make sure the policy provides for a defense against alleged violations of civil rights, particularly the Fair Housing Act," says Tankel. "If you're sued, you need at least a defense because most times, the legal fees will be the most expensive part.

    "And regardless of what kind of insurance your association has," says Tankel, "insist your agent write a letter saying the insurance complies with the requirements of your documents and the law."
And the above is how a good HOA protects itself from spurious lawsuits or where an honest mistake is made.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2012, 08:44 AM
 
2,818 posts, read 3,332,595 times
Reputation: 3015
Gee, imagine that. CAI trade group attorneys recommending that the HOA board get insurance coverage to pay for costs of defense in a lawsuit.

One shouldn't be surprised if the same attorneys advise the board to take a course of action that provokes a lawsuit...so that the attorneys now have assurances of work and get paid from the defense provisions of the insurance they recommended.

Notice that the article states that the D&O insurance may (not "would") pay for the defense. After the defense there is also the judgment. Did the author didn't spend much effort addressing payment of a judgment against the directors and officers. Oops! Notice the discussion about board members potentially needing to rely on their own personal umbrella policies (if they have one of course). Thanks for providing an article confirming the previous statements about coverage gaps and that board member personal liability is quite possible.

The management company contracts often provide significant control over insurance selection to the management company. The management companies select insurance that is the most beneficial for the management company, not their clients. The insurance products have coverage gaps and the article only identified a few of them.

As for "spurious" lawsuits and "honest" mistakes: i) the vendors file a large number of spurious lawsuits allegedly on behalf of their client HOA corporation every year under the pretext of preventing "harm" to the HOA corporation. The HOA's insurance does not cover the HOA for such suits; and ii) if "honesty" was a trait that these board members ever had then they might focus on paying for the harm their "honest mistake" caused rather than using member assessment monies to purchase insurance coverage to defend themselves against indefensible acts.

Sure there might be barriers to holding board members directly financially liable for their actions. However, the barriers are not insurmountable. A "good board member" is the non-existent one (i.e., no HOA). Perhaps the next best thing is the "board member" forced to personally pay for harm the board member intended to cause or allowed agents of the HOA corporation to cause to other property owners.

This article merely confirmed that board members can be held personally financially responsible despite the existence of any D&O insurance. Again the management companies hawk insurance products beneficial to the management companies and all the products have coverage gaps and exceptions. One shouldn't be surprised to find that the management company, insurance carrier, and HOA attorney are all members of the same trade group. The trade group members work together for the financial benefit of the members of the trade group, not the alleged client.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2012, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,144 posts, read 5,452,573 times
Reputation: 4020
Default IC claims to be the ULTIMATE professional

Not only does IC know more about insurance than insurance professionals, he knows more about law than JDs, and I suspect he knows more about medicine than physicians, more about cars than mechanics, more about plumbing than plumbers.

Every recommendation made by any professional is discounted by IC as "part of the CAI trade group."

All HOA's should heed Mr. I AM RIGHT's advice and ignore the advice of professionals. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL CAUSE YOUR D&O INSURANCE TO FAIL TO COVER A BOARD OF DIRECTORS. Which I stated time and again in previous posts. A Board must act within the scope of its duties and it must inform the D&O insurance company in a timely manner (it's never too soon to inform your insurance carrier) of any potential action against the Board.

The below is still another case law--ignored by Mr. I AM RIGHT in his anger and frustration---that cites what can happen to an insurance company that fails to perform. Most insurance falls under the Law of Adhesion, meaning that the applicant for coverage has no ability to alter the contract and the Courts will normally rule in favor of the insured when the insurance contract is ambigious or fails to address the situation over which there is a conflict. From a Florida HOA attorney blog:

Duty To Defend v. Duty to Indemnify - You may have heard or been aware of this maxim.

Now you have a direct citation to authority for the proposition that that the duty to defend is distinct and broader than the duty to indemnify the insured. In fact, the Court cites to the proposition that:
All doubts as to whether a duty to defend exists are resolved against the insurer and in favor of the insured. As long as the complaint alleges facts which create potential coverage under the policy, a duty to defend is triggered. (Trizec Properties, Inc. v. Biltmore Const. Co., 767 F.2d 810 (11th Cir.1985).
Notice & Prejudice to Carrier – Insurance policies require the insured to notify the carrier of the claim or demand ‘as soon as practicable’. This case recites the principle of law that lack of notice merely shifts the burden to the insured to prove that the carrier hasn’t been prejudiced by the delay. In other words, while the insured’s failure to notify the carrier of the claim in a timely manner may constitute a complete bar to recovery, if the insured can prove that the delay in notice did not prejudice the carrier (its position, defense to the claim, etc.) then it is still entitled to coverage.
In this case the original claims were clearly related to damages to tangible property (including the loss of use). The owner later amended the complaint to include economic damages, which ostensibly would have triggered coverage, but the Association did not notify the carrier of the new allegations.



What do we learn?
  • First – understand which policies cover which types of losses and discuss/compare exclusions with your agent.
  • Second - notify the carrier of the desire for coverage as early as you can and thereafter if allegations change; and
  • Third - investigate owner damage claims (especially water/mold). Acting quickly (and/or having evidence of the conditions) will often reduce disputes.
The cost of defense is normally FAR greater than any damages recovered by an aggrieved party. The last figure I remember seeing (for ALL non-profit organizations, I believe) was $100,000.

D&O coverage will pay monetary damages where proven and. It will NOT pay for non-monetary damages awarded, such as, "replace my satellite dish which was taken down without my knowledge."

One New York expert on D&O insurance estimates that 99.9% of lawsuits filed against Directors covered by D&O coverage (of all types, including non-profits) are thrown out by the courts. That seems a tad high to me, but the relatively low cost of D&O insurance indicates that they don't lose very often. Because, IC, the way insurance for profit works is---if the insurance company has to pay more, it charges more.

IC, go back to school and get an education. You are simply displaying your ignorance of both insurance and law, and your inability to deal in a reasonable fashion with HOA's that are proliferating across the nation. I've provided solid and workable AND less expensive ideas to HOA members on how to deal with unreasonable Boards of Directors. Your aim is simply to hurt people to assuage your own anger over YOUR situation. And I still bet you haven't collected a dime from your lawsuit. No reason to continue your diatribe if you had won unambiguously.

And if you live in an HOA, you are STILL following the CC&Rs, if not, please cite for us chapter and verse the ones YOU ignore while your neighbors must obey.

Last edited by Wardendresden; 12-08-2012 at 12:01 PM.. Reason: highlighting
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2012, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,144 posts, read 5,452,573 times
Reputation: 4020
Default More state Statutes to refute IC's claim about personal liability of Directors

As a Board Member of a Nonprofit Organization, am I Personally Liable for the Debt of the Organization?

In Texas, the answer would be “no.” According to the Texas Business Organizations Code §22.152, “members of a corporation are not personally liable for a debt, liability, or obligation of the corporation.” For example, if a nonprofit organization defaults on a loan, a director would not be personally liable to repay all or a portion of this debt.
When is a Director Liable?

Section 22.221 and 22.235 of the Texas Business Organizations Code protect individual directors and officers of a nonprofit board, so long as he or she is not in violation of these three tenets:
1. the director acted in good faith;
2. the director acted with ordinary care (meaning care that an ordinarily prudent person in a similar position would exercise under similar circumstances); and
3. the director acted in a manner the director reasonably believes to be in the best interest of the corporation.

As I have previously pointed out, and which IC continues to ignore in order to feed his own anger and frustration, Boards MUST act in good faith, with ordinary care, and without violation of Federal or State Laws.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2012, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,144 posts, read 5,452,573 times
Reputation: 4020
Default Types of D&O coverage

D&O coverage can vary considerably. Most is sold on what is referred to as a "claims-made" basis. This means it provides coverage for any claim MADE by a third pary during the time the insurance coverage is in force. The upside of such coverage is--a claim is made for an incident that occurred last year, when you did not have the D&O policy. Since it is made now, while you have the policy, there is coverage subject to policy conditions and limitations.

The downside of such coverage is--- a year after you let the coverage expire, a claim is made for an incident that occurred DURING the term that you had the D&O policy. No coverage is available.

It is therefore extremely important to continue claims made coverage over extended renewal periods, or, if your organization decides to go with an "occurrence" policy, to purchase tail-end coverage on your final claims made policy.

[SIZE=2]Coverage Considerations:
[/SIZE]As there are no standard D&O policies, each policy and proposal must be evaluated on its own merits. Here are some issues that should be considered:
  • [SIZE=2]Claims-Made Coverage
    [/SIZE]Most liability insurance policies (general liability, automobile, workers' compensation) pay for events that occur during the policy period. For example, an auto insurance policy will pay for an accident that occurs while the policy is in force. D&O policies, however, pay for lawsuits filed during the policy period; the wrongful act could have occurred years before. Claims-made policies respond only when a suit is filed, or when a strong threat of a suit exists.

    Claims-made policy: Pays based on the date of the lawsuit.
    Occurrence policy: Pays based on the date of the accident or occurrence.

    The downside of a claims-made policy comes if the policy is canceled. Example: A D&O policy is put in force January 1, 2000, and is renewed in 2001 and 2002. In 2003, however, the organization decides to end the coverage, as the premium has increased. Six months later, a letter from an attorney arrives announcing a lawsuit for discrimination in hiring that occurred in 2002. No coverage. Although the policy was in force at the time of the alleged discrimination, the policy was not in force when the suit was filed. The solution to this problem is the extended reporting period found in most policies (see the next paragraph).
  • [SIZE=2]Extended Reporting Period/Tail Issues
    [/SIZE]
    Claims-made policies only provide protection for lawsuits and actions brought during the policy period. In the event that coverage is replaced or cancelled, protection may be desired for events that took place prior to expiration/cancellation but for which no claim has yet been filed. This coverage is called a "tail" or "extended reporting period" (ERP). Here are some issues to consider:

    -Can you buy the ERP at your option or only when the insurance company cancels the policy?
    -For what period is the ERP valid? One year? Two years?? Longer???
    -What is the premium for the ERP? (The cost is usually expressed as a percentage of the current premium.)
    -In what time frame must the insured decide to buy the ERP? (The usual period is 30 or 60 days.)
Be very careful in assessing coverage from any policy, particularly D&O. Make sure your purchase of such coverage is from a reputable company that has provided HOA D&O for a number of years. Contact your state insurance commissioner to determine the complaint record against the insurance provider.

OR, listen to IC and get yourself in a world of hurt!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2012, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,144 posts, read 5,452,573 times
Reputation: 4020
Default Oklahoma HOA law and protection

"The Oklahoma General Corporation Act (OGCA) provides that the members of board of directors of a non profit organization shall not be personally liable to the corporation or members thereof provided that such
  • immunity from liability shall not extend to any breach of the directors duty of loyalty to the corporation; any acts or omissions not in good faith or which involve intentional misconduct or a knowing violation of the law; or any transaction from which the director derived an improper personal benefit.
In other words, Directors and Officers Insurance does NOT protect a director or officer should a director be sued for against any willful violation of the Covenants and By-Laws or against any form of criminal activity, such as, but not limited to, embezzlement.
The Board members themselves should understand the risk they are placing themselves in PERSONALLY when they knowingly, willfully, and in a premeditated way take actions that violate either the governing documents of their HOA or of state law.
Board members should recognize that neither state law nor D&O Insurance will protect them from willful acts of wrongdoing and they are personally liable for the outcome of any legal action brought against them as a result of their wrong doing. "

As an officer in an HOA, you have a DUTY to follow the State and Federal laws, to follow your own covenants and By-Laws, to handle HOA funds in a fiduciary manner, and a duty to make sure you and yours do not profit from the HOA operations. It makes no difference what "reason" you may have for acting outside those guidelines, you will find yourself personally liable.

So if you are a homeowner in an HOA and have a dispute with your Board of Directors, generally pointing out to the HOA's attorney where they have failed to act properly will generally resolve any dispute in your favor. HOWEVER, where much conflict occurs is when homeowners simply express their OPINION that the Board has failed in its duty. Provide chapter and verse. Document, document, document. Request minutes from past Board meetings, review website information, keep copies of any letters received from the Board or individual directors.

If you simply choose the alternative to get a lawyer and sue, remember that you are always rolling the dice in court, that their may be case law, other precedents, or simply a judge that won't see it your way. You could end up losing tens of thousands of dollars in attorney and court costs when it would have been so much simpler to gather information and present it to the Board AND its attorney in a factual and unemotional manner.

IC is the kind of person I love to confront in a public arena. He lets his anger and frustration get in the way of any ability he might have to THINK, and accomplish his goal in the least confrontational way possible. Don't follow his example.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,144 posts, read 5,452,573 times
Reputation: 4020
Default From HOA-USA.com

What can I as an owner do if the association is not performing its duties or if other owners violate restrictive covenants or bylaws?

Read your association's governing documents. Often the association has adopted resolutions or rules that clarify the language of the governing documents. Also, if the association maintains a website, look for copies of the governing documents, a resident handbook, and contact information for the board and/or management company. The seriousness of the issue often dictates the manner in which you first communicate your concern. The best way may be a simple phone call, an email, or a presentation at the board meeting. Using tact and diplomacy will go a long way in achieving success. Present your concern to the board of directors and/or the property management company. If the board or management company is unresponsive to oral communication, present your concern again in writing. Be specific regarding your concerns and ask for answers in writing by a reasonable date. If the association contracts with a management company be sure to copy both the board and the management company. Remember that the board is ultimately the governing authority.

If you feel that the association is violating laws, look for the appropriate government agency to assist. This may be at the federal, state, or local level. For example, the Federal Communications Commission is the authority for satelite dishes. State laws governing common interest communities vary widely. In many cases, local ordinances can be enforced regarding lease laws, abandoned cars, trash cans, etc.

If the concern is still unresolved, seek legal assistance to pursue the concern throught the court system. If you seek legal recourse, be sure to use an attorney/law firm with practice experience in common interest community laws and that does not already have an attorney/client relationship with the association. Remember that legal fees are high. Evaluate the risk/reward of pursuing a legal solution and ask your attorney to also evaluate the financial and non-financial risk/reward. Become involved in the governance of your association by running for office, or by removing a board member for cause or through the election process. For some residents, the final step is to move.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,144 posts, read 5,452,573 times
Reputation: 4020
Default IC's of the world increase HOA fees

Bill Worrall, vice president of The Continental Group, which is based in Hollywood, Fla., and manages 1,300 condominium and homeowner associations totaling 310,000 residential units, has seen an increase in the number of owners challenging boards on spending.

"Boards are being challenged," Worrell says, "particularly over the last couple of years as a result of collections and bad debt. It's been no fun for anybody involved. It's most common at the annual budget meeting. If there's no increase or decrease in fees, nobody ever shows up. But if there's any increase at all, that's a sure-fire way to get people at meetings these days. You'll certainly have a quorum before you know it."


Elizabeth White, a shareholder and head of the community associations practice at the law firm of LeClairRyan in Williamsburg, Va., has also seen more owner challenges, some of which are calculated attempts to undermine the board. "We're encountering this a lot, particularly on legal fees," she explains. "And the people challenging the legal fees are the people creating the legal fees--those with debts to the HOA or those filing a gazillion books-and-records requests. There's a certain type of resident who'll run up legal fees and then criticize the amount of legal fees or spending in general. A lot of times it's a ruse to get control or to facilitate their position politically within the association."


Start any discussion over spending with a well-thought-out and presented plan. First remind owners of how the board operates and plans its budget. "Board members have to preemptively defend themselves by communicating with owners about how replacement fund requirements are determined, the trade-off between deferred maintenance and later special assessments, and the risks entailed by not following the insurance company's loss-control program," says Harry Styron, an attorney at Styron & Shilling in Branson, Mo., who's drafted covenants for more than 100 subdivisions and more than 40 condominiums, agrees. "If the board can't explain those things, it may need more education."


COMMUNICATION is a number one requirement for any HOA Board of Directors. Find someone who can communicate effectively as a Board member and make sure all your decisions are open and transparent. It will not deter the IC's of the world, but it will make a lot of difference to the vast majority of people in your community. Anger and frustration, such as IC displays in his posts, will almost always lead to conflict and less desirable outcomes for all parties and concerned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2012, 08:53 PM
 
2,818 posts, read 3,332,595 times
Reputation: 3015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Not only does IC know more about insurance than insurance professionals, he knows more about law than JDs, and I suspect he knows more about medicine than physicians, more about cars than mechanics, more about plumbing than plumbers.
Now, now, perhaps you are getting a little paranoid with your suspicions.

Quote:
Every recommendation made by any professional is discounted by IC as "part of the CAI trade group."
Only recommendations made by members of the CAI trade group are discounted - and for good cause. By the way Wardendresden, did you happen to get one of those CAI self-accreditations that rhymes with "scam" while you were working at the HOA management company?

Quote:
...The below is still another case law--ignored by Mr. I AM RIGHT in his anger and frustration---that cites what can happen to an insurance company that fails to perform. Most insurance falls under the Law of Adhesion, meaning that the applicant for coverage has no ability to alter the contract and the Courts will normally rule in favor of the insured when the insurance contract is ambigious or fails to address the situation over which there is a conflict. From a Florida HOA attorney blog:

Duty To Defend v. Duty to Indemnify - You may have heard or been aware of this maxim.

Now you have a direct citation to authority for the proposition that that the duty to defend is distinct and broader than the duty to indemnify the insured. In fact, the Court cites to the proposition that:
All doubts as to whether a duty to defend exists are resolved against the insurer and in favor of the insured. As long as the complaint alleges facts which create potential coverage under the policy, a duty to defend is triggered. (Trizec Properties, Inc. v. Biltmore Const. Co., 767 F.2d 810 (11th Cir.1985).
Who's angry? The plaintiffs (of which I was one) prevailed over the HOA corporation, its attorney, its management company, and its board. I think the board members, the HOA attorney, etc. are the angry ones. The HOA corporation lost.

You should have cited Texas state case law or at least something in the 5th Circuit for your area of the country. However, this case stands only for the proposition that there might be a duty to defend, not a duty to pay a judgment. The CAI attorneys are interested in payment for attorney fees to defend. When the board loses, uh oh for the board. But hey, the HOA attorney got paid, right? Ha ha.

Quote:
...The cost of defense is normally FAR greater than any damages recovered by an aggrieved party. The last figure I remember seeing (for ALL non-profit organizations, I believe) was $100,000.
One should never compare "ALL non-profit organizations" with HOA corporations. HOA corporations are neither voluntary membership nor charitable institutions so they tend to have far more problems than other "non-profits". The "defense" costs were several multiples of that because of the tactics the HOA attorney and board members chose to engage in.

Quote:
...One New York expert on D&O insurance estimates that 99.9% of lawsuits filed against Directors covered by D&O coverage (of all types, including non-profits) are thrown out by the courts. That seems a tad high to me, but the relatively low cost of D&O insurance indicates that they don't lose very often. Because, IC, the way insurance for profit works is---if the insurance company has to pay more, it charges more.
Your statistics need to be specific to HOA corporations, not "all types" of D&O coverage. Maybe the "relatively low cost of D&O insurance" reflects that the insurance carriers aren't paying out more because the coverage isn't what you think it is.

Quote:
IC, go back to school and get an education. You are simply displaying your ignorance of both insurance and law, and your inability to deal in a reasonable fashion with HOA's that are proliferating across the nation. I've provided solid and workable AND less expensive ideas to HOA members on how to deal with unreasonable Boards of Directors. Your aim is simply to hurt people to assuage your own anger over YOUR situation. And I still bet you haven't collected a dime from your lawsuit. No reason to continue your diatribe if you had won unambiguously.
Thank you for demonstrating the type of personality that works at these HOA management companies and seeks out HOA board positions. Your multiple lengthy postings evidence a sense of desperation to this reader. As a prevailing plaintiff I'm not the angry party.

Certainly it is helpful to understand the law. You might be underestimating my knowledge of the law. I haven't overestimated yours. You've inexplicably called me stupid and uneducated and yet I prevailed over your trade group experts. What does that say about them?

The solutions you propose are laughable and wholly unworkable by design. Maybe you were a little too close to the seminar room during one of those "new board member" brainwashing seminars conducted by your former employer. All your "research" is coming from the trade group that profits from creating and maintaining problems to begin with. Which HOA management company did you work for?

Reasons to continue addressing HOA issues includes i) exposing your trade group for what it is; and ii) dispelling the myths and propaganda that your trade group proliferates. The HOA problem hasn't gone away and neither has the propaganda from your trade group. In the OP's case it sounds like the HOA corporation is nothing but a liability and a source of contention. The OP might consider the possibility of eliminating the HOA corporation. The HOA obviously offers nothing of value to them.

As far as collecting a "dime", the amount owed is sizeable. The HOA and its board members have assets that can be taken. The plaintiffs will have no problem collecting every penny with interest. The HOA board is slowly starting to realize just how bad the advice provided to them by the HOA management company and the HOA attorney was. The management company and the HOA attorney are members of the CAI trade group of course. I'll let you know when the news story airs.

The OP should be wary about the trade group memberships of whatever attorney they consult with regarding their HOA issue.

See, e.g., Chapter 7 of The HOA Primer
theHOAprimer
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top