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Old 12-26-2012, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,682 posts, read 9,417,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
I don't think anyone should take your portrayal of Oregon seriously.
Bam! jazzlover gets one to the gut! down for the count ...
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
b) Politics in Oregon is mostly left-ish of center by national standards, even in the Valley outside the large metropolitan areas that don't exist and the 'resort ghettos' (Sun River? not sure exactly what resorts you're talking about here-Oregon is not exactly a resort type of place).

c) There's not really a huge amount of prejudice against 'non-natives' remaining in Oregon unless it has returned since I left. Haven't seen it on my frequent visits back home to see family, though. There was a little against Californians in the 1980s, but it had more to do with them selling their houses for a lot of money, then moving into Oregon and causing rents and prices to inflate by buying at much higher prices than had been the norm-not because we truly disliked them or thought they were twisting the state.
Comments:

Define "leftish-ish of center." On social issues? Environmental issues? Labor issues? A logger might very well be a union Democrat, but that's a far sight different than a radical environmentalist's left-wing politics. Like Colorado, Oregon is a pretty "secular" state that is not part of the Bible Belt. So, on social issues, Oregon or Colorado might seem pretty "liberal" if one uses the religious zealot definition of "conservative," but that definition of "conservative" is not the one that most Rocky Mountain residents have historically embraced.

I've traveled a fair amount in Oregon. There is a lot (now) of coastal Oregon that, more and more, has the resort ghetto vibe, as fishing and logging have declined.

As to the Californians bidding up prices of real estate, etc., that is the same reason that they are often resented in most Rocky Mountain states. That, and the fact that, despite the fact that they profess to hate what their former state of California has become, far too many of them insist on trying to turn Colorado (or anyplace else that they relocate to) into exactly what they left California to supposedly escape. By the way, I've found that there are quite a few people in far northern California who have little use for LA or San Francisco, just like there are a lot people in rural Colorado who don't have a lot use for Denver, except for infrequent, small doses.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
2,697 posts, read 4,633,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Comments:

Define "leftish-ish of center." On social issues? Environmental issues? Labor issues? A logger might very well be a union Democrat, but that's a far sight different than a radical environmentalist's left-wing politics. Like Colorado, Oregon is a pretty "secular" state that is not part of the Bible Belt. So, on social issues, Oregon or Colorado might seem pretty "liberal" if one uses the religious zealot definition of "conservative," but that definition of "conservative" is not the one that most Rocky Mountain residents have historically embraced.
Yes, yes, and yes. Social: I am frankly surprised the marijuana bill did not pass. It is widely used essentially everywhere. If phrased differently, it'll pass. Environmental: yes. There are a very very few remaining loggers and ranchers that would be considered 'right' by a national standard, you know, the standard YOU reference when you say that people are "moderate conservatives with a conservationist bent, much like me." Most of the people I personally know in Oregon are moderate liberals, with a sprinkling of stronger liberal-leaning beliefs and a small minority of more right types.

I don't honestly think a large portion of the population would be like you based on my limited readings of your posts. They are conservationists by and large, full stop-but that does not make them moderately conservative. The ones who are conservative are not a significant path of the remaining population, and an Oregonian conservative is not necessarily a 'conservative' in the sense the rest of the nation means it. As I have spent significant time in the south, Georgia and Virginia (see the screen name?), as well as going to college in Colorado, I think I am qualified to say there's a difference in the nature of conservatism in those areas-even 'Republicans' in Oregon are often what the rest of the country call RINOs.

BTW: Logging is not viewed as a viable employment path anymore. Most of those guys have long since moved on. 'Logging' was offered as a track in the high school I went to (along with college prep and voc-ed). That isn't really there anymore.

I honestly think you might want to do some actual research before you make sweeping pronouncements on the politics of Oregon. I recommend you look up the Congressional representation in Oregon and the history of the Governorship. Look it up for the last 50 years. You probably will be surprised by what you see and stop trying to say people there are generally conservative. At least they are not indicating it by who they elect. West of the Cascades, the major population centers, it is generally a liberal state, full stop. Even east of the Cascades (the high Desert), which is pretty sparsely populated, you can get a lot of liberal types: Bend, Sisters, The Dalles.

Quote:
I've traveled a fair amount in Oregon. There is a lot (now) of coastal Oregon that, more and more, has the resort ghetto vibe, as fishing and logging have declined.
I give it more of a meth vibe. But hey, that's just my opinion. It has always been essentially the way it is now in my lifetime. The coast has always been an incredibly rough place to live compared to the Valley and Portland, and had those tacky attractions as a desperate way to make a buck. It's not a function of decline. It's a function of been down. That's why not many people live there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzlover
As to the Californians bidding up prices of real estate, etc., that is the same reason that they are often resented in most Rocky Mountain states. That, and the fact that, despite the fact that they profess to hate what their former state of California has become, far too many of them insist on trying to turn Colorado (or anyplace else that they relocate to) into exactly what they left California to supposedly escape. By the way, I've found that there are quite a few people in far northern California who have little use for LA or San Francisco, just like there are a lot people in rural Colorado who don't have a lot use for Denver, except for infrequent, small doses.
Believe I've already mentioned: Oregonians by and large no longer resent someone for where they come from, what they want when they get there, and they generally don't hold it against someone that they aren't a native unto the umpteenth generation. You should try it sometime. It might give you a refreshing outlook on life.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:20 AM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,525,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post

As to the Californians bidding up prices of real estate, etc., that is the same reason that they are often resented in most Rocky Mountain states. That, and the fact that, despite the fact that they profess to hate what their former state of California has become, far too many of them insist on trying to turn Colorado (or anyplace else that they relocate to) into exactly what they left California to supposedly escape. By the way, I've found that there are quite a few people in far northern California who have little use for LA or San Francisco, just like there are a lot people in rural Colorado who don't have a lot use for Denver, except for infrequent, small doses.
Not personally but as a group I hate Californians and New Jerseyites/New Yorkers. They ruin their own states with leftist politics and then once done they want to move in with you and ruin your state with their same blabbering politics. The only sad and bad thing about Colorado to me is Californians that have moved in.

We see it a lot in rural Colorado with these people and their negative interaction with the locals. Quite often they never become locals themselves because they are always off to the next place to ruin.

Fortunately, thanks to the economic depression and Californians over their head with their own real estate in California, many of them want to escape to Colorado but they can't anymore due to their finances. Rural Colorado has it's own economic grindstone that stops that as well.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:11 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,777,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Not personally but as a group I hate Californians and New Jerseyites/New Yorkers. They ruin their own states with leftist politics and then once done they want to move in with you and ruin your state with their same blabbering politics. The only sad and bad thing about Colorado to me is Californians that have moved in.

We see it a lot in rural Colorado with these people and their negative interaction with the locals. Quite often they never become locals themselves because they are always off to the next place to ruin.

Fortunately, thanks to the economic depression and Californians over their head with their own real estate in California, many of them want to escape to Colorado but they can't anymore due to their finances. Rural Colorado has it's own economic grindstone that stops that as well.
All pretty much true, especially the bolded part. Now, I probably would be called a "RINO" because I have a strong conservationist bent to my politics--not raging environmentalist, but recognizing that natural resources are not an infinite quantity to be wantonly squandered and wasted.

The really ironic thing about Colorado and other Rocky Mountain states is that the real estate development interests (dominated by folks that profess to be "economic conservatives", except when it comes to socializing the costs of their development schemes on the taxpayers, while privatizing the profits for themselves) are the very people selling to the Californians and other out-of-state "liberal" transplants who will eventually poison the productive economy of the state. That is exactly what has happened in California, and the same nasty end is what is headed for Colorado, unless this state "mans up" and starts making development and population growth pay its own way.

The point is that people thinking, a la the title of this thread, that they will find an idyllic Western town akin to what might have existed up to a couple of decades ago are going to find slim pickings in Colorado. Most of what is left is the "cartoon" version--as I've posted before, similar to thinking that Disneyland is representative of LA.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,835,798 times
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jazzlover wrote: As to the Californians bidding up prices of real estate,

This is only HALF of the equation. If you want to play the blame game, then an equal amount of blame goes to the Colorado sellers who willingly accept the high prices offered. No one MAKES them do it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,682 posts, read 9,417,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
The point is that people thinking, a la the title of this thread, that they will find an idyllic Western town akin to what might have existed up to a couple of decades ago are going to find slim pickings in Colorado. Most of what is left is the "cartoon" version

You're saying that a town like Collbran is a "cartoon" mountain town?
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
You're saying that a town like Collbran is a "cartoon" mountain town?
Unfortunately, that is the trend, even in a lot of the old ranching towns like Collbran. Ranchettes occupied by people who don't know a cow from a steer are becoming the norm in even those places. And many of those moving in are bringing their "big city" attitudes and practices with them.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
5,682 posts, read 9,417,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Unfortunately, that is the trend, even in a lot of the old ranching towns like Collbran. Ranchettes occupied by people who don't know a cow from a steer are becoming the norm in even those places. And many of those moving in are bringing their "big city" attitudes and practices with them.
I didn't see any of that at all when I used to go visit my friend in Collbran. What I saw were a lot of old ranching families living up there and things that looked like they hadn't changed at all in 50 years. There may be one or two "big city" transplants up there, but out of the few hundred families living on that mountainside, I doubt its any more than that and there's certainly no visible evidence of it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 27,013,351 times
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The way the country has melded into a giant blob due to current technology and worker relocation it seems ridiculous to broad brush every resident of any particular state. I'm sure the average Denver suburbanite is almost indistinguishable from the average Southern California suburbanite. Both (or their parents) probably came from Ohio or somewhere else anyway.

There are actually very few multi-generational Californians like me. (just had to say that for Jazz's benefit).
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