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Old 12-07-2012, 07:33 PM
 
811 posts, read 1,223,672 times
Reputation: 2111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by certainquirk View Post
All the folks going on about relativity are duped. Credit is the sole reason this madness is allowed to occur. That and the madness of the average Joe who thinks because he can get a mortgage for a $150,000 home that he should.

The average Joe working at the average Joe salary is NOT going to pay for that home in his lifetime. That is simple math. But because simple math is beyond the average Joe, and the average banker knows this, the whole merry-go-round keeps spinning.

Uhm, hello? Did no one in America learn anything from the first housing bubble? Is there anybody home???
What "first housing bubble" are you referring to? The one in the Coastal California city in which I had the "privilege" to be raised, which saw the cost of single-family three-bedroom homes built in the 1920's go from $60K in 1970 to $180K in 1978 to $1.3 Million in 1988 then "level off" in the 1990's then jump up to the $2 Million range in the 2000's? Is THAT the first housing bubble of which you speak with such depth of knowledge?

Perhaps I am indeed "duped" as you so persuasively put it, but if I was "duped" into thinking buying a spacious 3,500 square foot house in the foothills of a gorgeous front-range city for roughly $65 a square foot in 2008 in which to raise my kids is a FRIPPIN BARGAIN compared to the equivalent house in my Coastal California death-trap of a city (would have EASILY cost $3-5 million for what I got here for under $300K), then please never wake me from this dream.

Are you kidding? Duped. Sure. What, should I have held out for $50 a square foot for this gorgeous front range house of mine with a city view in the best school district in the state? $30 a square foot? Should I have convinced my spouse to live in a teepee until prices came back to reality (like what, Wichita prices)? Take it from somebody who has seen REAL bubbles in real estate, the Colorado "bubble" was and is NOTHING compared to an ACTUAL real estate bubble. My high-school buddy bought a small three bedroom house near our Coastal CA city in 2006 and its currently down roughly $400-500K in value. THAT is a real estate bubble. Not a front-range Colorado house selling for $150K. Jeez Louise.

But go ahead and insult those of who actually have a perspective on this, since you're clearly the expert.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,835,798 times
Reputation: 9316
certainquirk wrote: I'm not totally unhappy. My house is paid for and I'm grateful I had the wisdom and perseverance to do it.

That's definitely an accomplishment to be happy about, but you are missing my point. I'm talking about an inner experience of happiness that is totally independent of circumstances. I'm talking about being happy for the sake of being happy. A happiness based on circumstance going your way is a shaky happiness, that is likely to vanish when circumstances are no longer going your way.


certainquirk wrote:So, maybe you're in the wrong forum @CosmicWizard? Maybe you should be on the streets spreading your msg of peace, love and optimism with those who are foreclosed and homeless... to those who just need one more loan and this time it'll work...

You can put your mind at ease about me being in the wrong forum. I'm in exactly the right forum, the same one in which you made the post I'm commenting on. You are giving me far more credit than I deserve. My message is only a message of being happy, which may or may not have anything to do peace, love, and optimism, with no special emphasis on those who are foreclosed and homeless.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
682 posts, read 1,605,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idlewile View Post
Oh, it did. Only now is it rebounding gradually but slower than other parts of the country. We had friends whose homes sat on the market in 2009 and 2010 for a year. We were LUCKY to sell our home there in a relatively short amount of time, in contrast to the comps, in 2011. And Denver's job market took the corresponding hit too.

As others have said, home prices are based on demand -- what the majority are willing to pay. It is a highly desirable place to live for a plethora of reasons, as evidence by this forum's traffic. I'm not sure what is causing your confusion. It's the reason why cost of living calculators exist - because every area is different.

While I know it's not for me, I completely understand why my Bay Area friends' 1200 sq ft, two bedroom condos with 70s kitchens and baths are 600K.
wow only 600k for 2 bedrooms? they must live in a crap part of the bay area
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:43 AM
 
Location: High Plains of Colorado
97 posts, read 106,137 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdensbcs View Post
But go ahead and insult those of who actually have a perspective on this, since you're clearly the expert.
I'm no expert. But I know the overall outcome of the 2007 housing bubble and I know what it was caused by--all I have to do is live and read the news:

*Ppl lost their jobs (like me)
*Lost their dollar's value (like me)
*Lost the "value" of their homes (like me)
*Lost their entire homes (fortunately not me)

All caused by credit and its willing participants.

There are ppl in other places of the world who have no such option. The do live in cardboard tee-pees with the rest of their families--they live in reality. There are also ppl in America who purchase what they can afford and live within their means.
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:59 AM
 
Location: High Plains of Colorado
97 posts, read 106,137 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
A happiness based on circumstance going your way is a shaky happiness, that is likely to vanish when circumstances are no longer going your way.
True. But life is not always a happy business. I do my best with what I have. Most days, while I'm not bubbling with joy, I'm at least content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
My message is only a message of being happy, which may or may not have anything to do peace, love, and optimism, with no special emphasis on those who are foreclosed and homeless.
jeje!
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
55,576 posts, read 54,174,429 times
Reputation: 65721
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdensbcs View Post
As others have noted, its not Colorado per se but rather the perspective from which you are viewing Colorado. Spend the next 10 years in San Francisco, LA, Boston, Greater NYC, San Diego, etc. and then come back and look at Colorado real estate (excluding Aspen, etc., which is effectively a suburb of Greenwich, CT rather than a mountain town in Colorado). You will be shocked at how CHEAP and laughably affordable front-range land/housing is. Its all a matter of what you're comparing it to.
The title of this thread caught my eye for just that reason. I'm in NJ. Colorado is CHEAP!

Visited a friend there once, beautiful place!
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,421,317 times
Reputation: 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdensbcs View Post
What "first housing bubble" are you referring to? The one in the Coastal California city in which I had the "privilege" to be raised, which saw the cost of single-family three-bedroom homes built in the 1920's go from $60K in 1970 to $180K in 1978 to $1.3 Million in 1988 then "level off" in the 1990's then jump up to the $2 Million range in the 2000's? Is THAT the first housing bubble of which you speak with such depth of knowledge?

Perhaps I am indeed "duped" as you so persuasively put it, but if I was "duped" into thinking buying a spacious 3,500 square foot house in the foothills of a gorgeous front-range city for roughly $65 a square foot in 2008 in which to raise my kids is a FRIPPIN BARGAIN compared to the equivalent house in my Coastal California death-trap of a city (would have EASILY cost $3-5 million for what I got here for under $300K), then please never wake me from this dream.

Are you kidding? Duped. Sure. What, should I have held out for $50 a square foot for this gorgeous front range house of mine with a city view in the best school district in the state? $30 a square foot? Should I have convinced my spouse to live in a teepee until prices came back to reality (like what, Wichita prices)? Take it from somebody who has seen REAL bubbles in real estate, the Colorado "bubble" was and is NOTHING compared to an ACTUAL real estate bubble. My high-school buddy bought a small three bedroom house near our Coastal CA city in 2006 and its currently down roughly $400-500K in value. THAT is a real estate bubble. Not a front-range Colorado house selling for $150K. Jeez Louise.

But go ahead and insult those of who actually have a perspective on this, since you're clearly the expert.
Well said! My family is all in Colorado on the Front Range and while they felt the crunch of the economy, they didn't experience much of a housing bubble like California, or here in Bend, Oregon where I am (mini Cali, ha). My aunt and uncle moved back to Colorado from S. California in 2008, the year we moved from Colorado to Oregon. Their home sold for $150K less than it would have the year before (and they were in the s****y part of California--Hemet). That's a bubble burst! We bought our home in OR in 2009 for $165K with a short sale. It was purchased by the previous owners in 2005 (considered the height here in Bend) for $325K. Now, it's valued less than we purchased it for. Another bubble.

My parents home in Colorado lost about $30K in value and they were really upset. They were thinking about selling, but after this, decided to stay. That was a year ago. At this point, their home is back to being worth what they want to get out of it. Not much of a bubble, at least in the metro area.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:24 AM
 
Location: High Plains of Colorado
97 posts, read 106,137 times
Reputation: 158
So as others have pointed out I have no idea what I'm talking about. If you're moving here from California or New Jersey or some other special place and you find the housing prices to be a bargain, by all means, buy one.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,835,798 times
Reputation: 9316
When I moved from Virginia Beach to Grand Junction in '06, the cost of real estate was quite affordable in comparison, gas a few cents higher, clothes and groceries pretty much the same, and real estate taxes MUCH less. If anything, I experienced a mild case of reverse sticker shock. Like others have pointed out, it really depends on the prices used in your comparison. Compared to some places, Colorado real estate prices will seem high. Compared to other places, Colorado real estate prices will seem like a bargain.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:00 AM
 
811 posts, read 1,223,672 times
Reputation: 2111
Quote:
Originally Posted by certainquirk View Post
So as others have pointed out I have no idea what I'm talking about. If you're moving here from California or New Jersey or some other special place and you find the housing prices to be a bargain, by all means, buy one.
Well ... you're correct in the sense we (and by "we" I effectively mean all of western industrialized civilization, not just the US and certainly not just Colorado) recently suffered a form of collective financial credit insanity. Individuals were insane to finance their lifestyle with borrowed money. Banks, especially, were insane to facilitate such behavior. I don't blame the individual people because the vast majority of humanity is unable to control or even modulate their various urges, if given the means to indulge them. Self-control has never been a typical human quality. That is where the banks are supposed to come in - THEY'RE the ones supposed to behave like grown ups, but of course they did not, and so here we are.

All that being acknowledged (and it was fairly obvious all along, which is why I hunkered down in a fully-paid-off, reasonably modest townhouse during the madness of 2002-2007), the credit madness had a comparatively negligible impact on the vast majority of Colorado real estate. Prices did not go stratospheric like they did in many, many other places. Colorado front-range real estate costs more than Wichita, Detroit, etc. not because credit was easier to get here but rather because MORE PEOPLE want to live here than in those other places. Its a "location" thing not a "fog a mirror and get a mortgage approved" thing.

The thing I find more disturbing about "modern" developed housing (and I presume this is as true elsewhere as in Colorado) is how CHEAPLY houses are being built since roughly 1985 or so. I understand developers can make more money the fewer materials they use, but at some point it gets really absurd. I agree with you that the $150K house built on the eastern plains of a CO front-range city is a charade not because of the recent credit madness, but rather because the developer paid $20K for the lot and spent $30K on materials to build a flimsy house, or something similarly cheap that not even the first two of the three little pigs should have been willing to accept. You almost have to custom build a new house or buy a house built solidly in the 1950's or 1960's to get actual quality. Our home inspector simply could not get over how solidly our 1965 house was built, after inspecting so many "new" houses.
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