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Old 12-10-2012, 03:13 PM
 
25 posts, read 117,995 times
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Well, I guess now that the new law has been passed. Colorado home prices are now going to go up even higher.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:43 PM
 
25 posts, read 117,995 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdensbcs View Post
What "first housing bubble" are you referring to? The one in the Coastal California city in which I had the "privilege" to be raised, which saw the cost of single-family three-bedroom homes built in the 1920's go from $60K in 1970 to $180K in 1978 to $1.3 Million in 1988 then "level off" in the 1990's then jump up to the $2 Million range in the 2000's? Is THAT the first housing bubble of which you speak with such depth of knowledge?

Perhaps I am indeed "duped" as you so persuasively put it, but if I was "duped" into thinking buying a spacious 3,500 square foot house in the foothills of a gorgeous front-range city for roughly $65 a square foot in 2008 in which to raise my kids is a FRIPPIN BARGAIN compared to the equivalent house in my Coastal California death-trap of a city (would have EASILY cost $3-5 million for what I got here for under $300K), then please never wake me from this dream.

Are you kidding? Duped. Sure. What, should I have held out for $50 a square foot for this gorgeous front range house of mine with a city view in the best school district in the state? $30 a square foot? Should I have convinced my spouse to live in a teepee until prices came back to reality (like what, Wichita prices)? Take it from somebody who has seen REAL bubbles in real estate, the Colorado "bubble" was and is NOTHING compared to an ACTUAL real estate bubble. My high-school buddy bought a small three bedroom house near our Coastal CA city in 2006 and its currently down roughly $400-500K in value. THAT is a real estate bubble. Not a front-range Colorado house selling for $150K. Jeez Louise.

But go ahead and insult those of who actually have a perspective on this, since you're clearly the expert.
Good first point! I will give you that. But right off the bat you have shown me that you’ve failed to understand what exactly I’m trying to get to. So do you really think that the scenario which you describe above created neighborhoods? NOT! What I see is over pricing and artificial inflation. Think about it! The average person can no longer afford to live in that very same neighborhood you grew up in, let alone drive through there anymore. Suuuuuuuuuuuure it’s a sweet payday for the previous owner. But, I’m sure that the person who is coming in and buying the home can pretty much afford to pick N choose to live anywhere they want. Even at $1.3Million,you should be able to score a nice place in SanFran and NYC… Sadly, had your folks or anyone who originally purchased back in the heyday would have been forced to move out due to the “Artificial” real estate taxes. See it’s all a game. Over price everything and suckers will buy. One house goes into foreclosure and they all collapse in price… I’m no expert, but merely someone who has situational awareness…



Is it a good deal? Well, that’s up to the observer. See, what you consider a good deal, is a lot of money for me. If you came in at less than 300K, I’m willing to be that you do not have mountain views. Heck, you may just get a slight peek, granted the weather is cooperating that day. I agree, California is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay! Overpriced. I’m still shocked at the fact that people are still moving there. Everyone is in debt there. Don’t take that literally, but the average professional worker who has a mortgage is probably in wayyy too much. You should not have to buy a house for $400,000 that does not have ocean or mountain views. The traffic in California is atrocious! I don’t know how rich people live there… I am willing to bet that the only reason that your home is worth that much, is because of the influx of Californians that are moving to Colorado. They’re used to paying waaaaay! Higher prices. Colorado is just taking advantage of that. Hell, can you find a home in Lakewood that was built from 2002 – 2010 under $300,000… A decent home with 4bedrooms and 2.5baths?... oh and a peek of a mountain. Add the link to the reply will yah? I’d love to see this shack…





Expert you say? No not even close… But what I am is a home owner. Someone who is upside down on his mortgage by almost $100,000… Might not seem much compared to your examples above, but the difference between me and your buddy is, I would actually like to own the place in my lifetime. Your buddy’s example is a great example as to why people should not buy homes at artificially inflated prices. That’s exactly what happens. The home does not backup to the ocean with a view. The home does not have any real mountain views. What the home does have is, artificially inflated prices looking for another sucker. What I would really like to know is, how in the heck your buddy was planning on paying this place off in the first place… Let’s land right in the middle of the price $450,000 for the home. Hell, you don’t have to be in real estate to figure out the next line. After taxes and interest, when was he expecting to pay this place off? At 110 years old? No wait, is he on a 60yr loan?.. This is what im talking about, having the banks in your pocket for the rest of your life. No chance of real home ownership. Wasn’t it obvious that his home was waaaaaaaay above its peak? ….
Finally, I didn’t appreciate your tone during your last line. Remember I have nothing but love for Colorado….
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:13 AM
 
Location: The Valley of the Sun
1,481 posts, read 2,252,275 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by certainquirk View Post
There are ppl in other places of the world who have no such option. The do live in cardboard tee-pees with the rest of their families--they live in reality.
So what's your point? That we should all live out on the prairie in tents until we are in in our mid 50's and have saved up enough dough to purchase a $200k dollar house mortgage free? I understand that people need to live within their means but without credit and mortgage lenders, no one, particularly the middle and lower class, would be able to afford a home.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,835,798 times
Reputation: 9316
I don't think we'd have ANY savings if we all lived on the prarie in teepees until our middle 50s. We'd probably be in an even bigger hole than we are with our current lifestyle. We'd be spending most of our money commuting 100 miles each way to and from our jobs. Anything left over would go toward covering the deductible on our health insurance for the many claims we filed due to the bad health from all the stress in our lives.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:05 AM
 
811 posts, read 1,223,672 times
Reputation: 2111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradohh View Post
Finally, I didn’t appreciate your tone during your last line. Remember I have nothing but love for Colorado….
My "tone" in the last line was the result of a bit of irritation caused by the "tone" in the first line of your post to which I was responding. But no hard feelings - I appreciate your thoughtful response. My home in the Colorado Springs southwestern foothills indeed has limited mountain views, though it does have surprisingly pleasant city views as we face that direction and are a bit elevated. Go just a few houses up the street from us and the panorama is incredible. We bought for the schools and the established neighborhood though, not for the views.

The point I was trying to make is that Colorado real estate may be "inflated" by a few percentage points, but (with the exception perhaps of Aspen, etc.) Colorado NEVER went stratospheric to the point of utter absurdity. I bought a condo in Denver in 1998 for 90K (from a guy who bought it in 1996 for 72K) and sold it in 2000 for 120K. That was pretty sweet and it shows price inflation during that era, but it was in part a reflection of gentrification in the City Park neighborhood I bought/sold into. The neighborhood itself was changing, being discovered. Condos out in Aurora weren't going up in value at that rate.

As an educated professional with a freakish tendency toward thrift, I can afford to live in a nice, solid home with a modest view in a great neighborhood with superb schools in Colorado for which I do not feel I overpaid. The underlined part there is really the key. I despise debt and stubbornly insist on a "no mortage over 100K" rule regardless of how much my income increases to allow a bigger mortgage, fancier house higher-up-the-hill, etc. You said "relativists are duped" meaning (I presume) that comparisons to other real estate markets are irrelevant to Colorado. I'm trying to give you some perspective that my exact house in the quality of my exact neighborhood would cost me roughly 20X the price in the neighborhood in which I grew up in Coastal California. In other words, I've achieved in Colorado the same type of nice, safe, upscale without being snooty, good schools, etc. neighborhood I fondly recall from my childhood AT ONE-TWENTIETH of the price people are paying for it in Coastal California. You're arguing it should be even less in Colorado, like perhaps 1/25th. I'm saying 1/20th is good enough for me. I'd be perfectly happy with 1/25th, sure. But I ain't complainin' about 1/20th. I can work with 1/20th! I can pay my house off before my kids are in Junior High with 1/20th. I can let my spouse work or not with 1/20th. I can place money where it properly belongs on my list of prioritiies at 1/20th. It feels like living on a planet with 1/20th of the gravitational pull - like I can leap over a tall building at 1/20th, whereas trying to live in a coastal city was like having two 50 lb concrete blocks attached to my feet. So if that gives you any perspective, great, if not, then I'm just a dopey "duped" sucker living in a Colorado dreamworld from which I hope I never awake into that nightmare world of $800K mortgages for a postage-stamp house.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:22 PM
 
25 posts, read 117,995 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdensbcs View Post
My "tone" in the last line was the result of a bit of irritation caused by the "tone" in the first line of your post to which I was responding. But no hard feelings - I appreciate your thoughtful response. My home in the Colorado Springs southwestern foothills indeed has limited mountain views, though it does have surprisingly pleasant city views as we face that direction and are a bit elevated. Go just a few houses up the street from us and the panorama is incredible. We bought for the schools and the established neighborhood though, not for the views.

The point I was trying to make is that Colorado real estate may be "inflated" by a few percentage points, but (with the exception perhaps of Aspen, etc.) Colorado NEVER went stratospheric to the point of utter absurdity. I bought a condo in Denver in 1998 for 90K (from a guy who bought it in 1996 for 72K) and sold it in 2000 for 120K. That was pretty sweet and it shows price inflation during that era, but it was in part a reflection of gentrification in the City Park neighborhood I bought/sold into. The neighborhood itself was changing, being discovered. Condos out in Aurora weren't going up in value at that rate.

As an educated professional with a freakish tendency toward thrift, I can afford to live in a nice, solid home with a modest view in a great neighborhood with superb schools in Colorado for which I do not feel I overpaid. The underlined part there is really the key. I despise debt and stubbornly insist on a "no mortage over 100K" rule regardless of how much my income increases to allow a bigger mortgage, fancier house higher-up-the-hill, etc. You said "relativists are duped" meaning (I presume) that comparisons to other real estate markets are irrelevant to Colorado. I'm trying to give you some perspective that my exact house in the quality of my exact neighborhood would cost me roughly 20X the price in the neighborhood in which I grew up in Coastal California. In other words, I've achieved in Colorado the same type of nice, safe, upscale without being snooty, good schools, etc. neighborhood I fondly recall from my childhood AT ONE-TWENTIETH of the price people are paying for it in Coastal California. You're arguing it should be even less in Colorado, like perhaps 1/25th. I'm saying 1/20th is good enough for me. I'd be perfectly happy with 1/25th, sure. But I ain't complainin' about 1/20th. I can work with 1/20th! I can pay my house off before my kids are in Junior High with 1/20th. I can let my spouse work or not with 1/20th. I can place money where it properly belongs on my list of prioritiies at 1/20th. It feels like living on a planet with 1/20th of the gravitational pull - like I can leap over a tall building at 1/20th, whereas trying to live in a coastal city was like having two 50 lb concrete blocks attached to my feet. So if that gives you any perspective, great, if not, then I'm just a dopey "duped" sucker living in a Colorado dreamworld from which I hope I never awake into that nightmare world of $800K mortgages for a postage-stamp house.
Sorry for getting back to you so late. I did see your post on the first day that you posted, but with the Holidays upon us, I just haven't been able to sneak in the time. Well here i am! Sneaking in the time!

I'll have to admit. I agree with your post. Heck, I agree so much that i don't think i have a rebuttal. I wish that i wasn't as slammed and Knee deep at work as i am now. I would really love to keep the real estate conversation thing going here.

Any thoughts on MariJuanna and how the legalization of MJ could increase real estate prices? I'm wondering if now people are thinking about flocking to Colorado due to the legalization of this drug.

This of course will artificially inflate the prices again and middleclass folks will now be forced to pay upwards of $350K and up for a decent size lot with 4+ bedrooms.

Good response on that last one!
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:12 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,455 times
Reputation: 16
Denver is a great place to live if:

You don't mind paying a fortune to live in an old small bungalow.
You don't mind living on top of your neighbors.
You don't mind that your nicest room is your basement - the most updated room with the best space in your 12-1500sq foot house.
You don't like your car - between the potholes, unplowed roads and uninsured motorists, your nice car is doomed.
You don't care much for trendy dress attire.
You prefer fleece.
You are not into a real art scene
You don't mind driving an hour plus to the mountains to run around in the woods.
You don't need good public transportation
You don't mind being 15 years behind the times.
You don't mind flying everywhere to vacation.
You love sitting in traffic to go skiing.
You like urban 4 wheelin.
You prefer that streets are not plowed.
You don't care for car safety inspections
You don't mind driving to Kansas to catch a flight - AKA DIA
You like a good music scene
You like good Mexican food - there ya have it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Cole neighborhood, Denver, CO
1,123 posts, read 2,445,057 times
Reputation: 1247
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartiepants View Post
Denver is a great place to live if:

You don't mind paying a fortune to live in an old small bungalow.
You don't mind living on top of your neighbors.
You don't mind that your nicest room is your basement - the most updated room with the best space in your 12-1500sq foot house.
You don't like your car - between the potholes, unplowed roads and uninsured motorists, your nice car is doomed.
You don't care much for trendy dress attire.
You prefer fleece.
You are not into a real art scene
You don't mind driving an hour plus to the mountains to run around in the woods.
You don't need good public transportation
You don't mind being 15 years behind the times.
You don't mind flying everywhere to vacation.
You love sitting in traffic to go skiing.
You like urban 4 wheelin.
You prefer that streets are not plowed.
You don't care for car safety inspections
You don't mind driving to Kansas to catch a flight - AKA DIA
You like a good music scene
You like good Mexican food - there ya have it.
The "Is Denver Pretentious?" thread is a few lines up.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,835,798 times
Reputation: 9316
I'm betting that smartiepants is a one post wonder, who will never make another post. Just had to get a dig in against Denver to make his or her day.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:53 PM
 
229 posts, read 247,813 times
Reputation: 251
certainquirk is completely right.
The reason for those high prices is due to poor urban planning and the desire of banks and developers to make as much money as possible. 300K mortgage makes a lot more money than 100K. Both of those are in it with your local government who purposely keep those prices high through zoning and massive loans taken for the future by your local government to finance all this crazy new infrastructure WITH the expectation that this growth will continue so they can continue making payments. Sometimes they can't. Look at southern California.

The reason Denver(and some parts of CO in general) are 'booming', is because they're booming! Of course, building through the boom will create artificial growth. This is similar to what China is doing to keep their numbers pretty. What happens when people stop moving in? Sooner or later people will realize that there is nothing special about their 300K house in a middle of a maze and 'the boom' will move to another place. Denver is so last year... It's all about Indianapolis now!

This is nothing but a ponzi scheme. You can't continue getting 7% returns and expect this not to end and crash at some point.

Remember this?



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