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Old 07-01-2013, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,420,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idunn View Post
If not entirely topical to Colorado, it might be remembered that fire fighting is a difficult and potentially dangerous enterprise.

19 members of the Prescott Fire Department's Granite Mountain Hotshots team were killed today, Sunday, in the Yarnell Hill Fire in Arizona. This wildfire is located near Yarnell, a relatively short distance southwest of Prescott, AZ.

This would be the greatest tragedy and loss of firefighters since 1933, when 25 were killed in L.A.'s Griffith Park Fire.

In Colorado, the 1994 South Canyon Fire resulted in the deaths of 14 firefighters on Storm King Mountain, near Glenwood Springs.
Absolutely. It's inherently dangerous, even with the most elite amongst the firefighting community. As someone who formerly fought wildland fires in a small capacity (only when needed-not my primary job), my heart is heavy with this news. I still know many, many who are in the business and it's a major reminder that this job really is risky.

 
Old 07-03-2013, 12:14 AM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,018,462 times
Reputation: 2621
Wink Manitou Springs flooding

There is a brief article in The Denver Post about the flooding in Manitou Springs on Monday, July 1. This was not altogether unexpected, but a feared result of the Waldo Canyon Fire of 2012, with now a greater propensity for such things. US 24 was also briefly closed in result.

Manitou Springs is surely more susceptible to such events than other locations, yet serves as a reminder of some of the lingering after effects of these wildfires.

There is an accompanying video with this article which graphically shows some of the debris washed into town, damaging some homes.

Manitou Springs buried by long-feared floods - The Denver Post
 
Old 07-03-2013, 11:40 AM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,018,462 times
Reputation: 2621
Wink Not in the news

By my somewhat imprecise measurements there are currently 5 wildfires burning in Colorado.

One might think there were none, if relying solely on The Denver Post. Its only seeming mention of wildfire is of the Royal Gorge, and its reopening.

I believe the Big Meadows Fire in RMNP is still burning. The West Fork Complex Fire near South Fork, CO certainly is. It has steadily expanded in size, currently having burned a combined 97,823 acres. One of the three wildfires in this triad, the Papoose Fire, appears most active of late. It is located southwest of Creede, and just east of the Rio Grande reservoir. It appears to be burning principally to the southeast, towards the main body of the larger West Fork Fire.
 
Old 07-03-2013, 06:51 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,774,765 times
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I'm of two minds about the media coverage of the West Fork Complex fires. First, the coverage (or lack thereof) is typical of the shoddy treatment rural Colorado receives from the metro-dominated Colorado media. Second, though, the West Fork fire now lacks the notoriety because it is doing exactly what it should be doing: eliminating tens of thousands of acres of dead and diseased forest that now will begin the process of regenerating. Such lack of media "excitement" certainly won't be the case when, sooner or later, the equally diseased and dying lodgepole forests surrounding the I-70 Sacrifice Zone and comprising a lot of metro Colorado's municipal watersheds "torch up." That might be real entertaining to watch--from a long distance away, of course.
 
Old 07-03-2013, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Kingman AZ
15,371 posts, read 34,579,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I'm of two minds about the media coverage of the West Fork Complex fires. First, the coverage (or lack thereof) is typical of the shoddy treatment rural Colorado receives from the metro-dominated Colorado media. Second, though, the West Fork fire now lacks the notoriety because it is doing exactly what it should be doing: eliminating tens of thousands of acres of dead and diseased forest that now will begin the process of regenerating. Such lack of media "excitement" certainly won't be the case when, sooner or later, the equally diseased and dying lodgepole forests surrounding the I-70 Sacrifice Zone and comprising a lot of metro Colorado's municipal watersheds "torch up." That might be real entertaining to watch--from a long distance away, of course.
we've got one down here in Arizona [not the one that killed the 19 firefighters] its about 35oo acres with 0% containment...they are protecting the property in two small communities and letting mama nature take care of her version of urban renewal.....
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:02 PM
 
Location: CO
2,591 posts, read 5,985,839 times
Reputation: 3407
Fire on Lookout Mountain prompts evac notices

Quote:
GOLDEN, Colo. - A fire on Lookout Mountain has prompted the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office to send out Level 1 evacuation notices.

The notices went out to 282 phones, according to sheriff's office. . .
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:27 PM
 
20,836 posts, read 39,041,284 times
Reputation: 19042
Insurance companies are starting to crack down on homeowners who don't have defensible space.

It's about damned time.

Excerpts:

1. "...readers howled about what they perceived as price gouging and heavy-handed tactics by insurance companies...."
2. "Marcy Morrison, retired Colorado Insurance Commissioner, called to suggest it may be time for the Division of Insurance or state lawmakers to establish a standard list of fire mitigation criteria for homeowners and insurance companies." Gee, ya think it might be....
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:17 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,018,462 times
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Wink Not at all good for the forest

"I noted that several people had called me complaining they'd received inspection letters. A couple told me they'd been inspected and were told to cut down every tree, bush and shrub within 100 feet of their homes or face cancellation of their policies."

***
"We don't want everyone to start mowing down everything within 100 feet of their homes," she said. "We really want the areas within 30 to 50 feet of their homes to be really tight. We want to eliminate the fuels closest to the house. It's the first 30 feet surrounding the home that requires the most extensive mitigation.' [1]



Say goodbye to the forest.

Whatever does not burn in wildfires will be shorn by all the homeowners having moved into that once true forest, and otherwise "managed" and "thinned" to within an inch of its wild life by such as the U.S. Forest Service into some safer semblance of suburban park.

For anyone somehow unaware, a great deal of coercion can be effected through no more than the mandates of insurance. There will be precious few homeowners willing to tell their insurance adjuster to go to hell; with little to no—or, in some cases, great—complaints they will comply and do as told.

It doesn't seem to make much sense to move into a forest and then promptly eradicate it. But there you go.

On the other hand, insurance companies have been seemingly remiss in insuring ever more homeowners moving into areas once entirely wild and heavily forested, but somehow neglecting to consider the effects of our rapidly changing climate. A policy of one hundred feet of pre-scorched earth might on reflection seem too little to them. Take your average house or cabin built principally of wood, and hypothetically stick it in the midst of where the West Fork Fire has and is burning, and chances are it would have been incinerated, defensible space or not.

To be truly defensible when something major blows through would more or less require having the woods a good remove from one's home. Or, more than a few may discover that in practice they will have to move out of the woods if wishing insurance, or just that they might afford.

Alamosa is likely fine, and barren enough. In South Fork one is taking their chances. There are some trees spaced throughout town, but a great deal more as forest basically close on three sides. Perhaps just in case they could cut most of those down, and have that to look at. And maybe all the more prone to in being reminded that the West Fork Fire came within a couple miles of taking out the town, and still could.

400ppm, a tyrannical nanny state, and a PC and fearful population makes for a bad recipe. None of it good for the forest.


1) 'Side Streets: Wildfire insurance creating a ruckus,' The Gazette
Side Streets: Wildfire insurance creating a ruckus
 
Old 07-04-2013, 08:03 PM
 
16,505 posts, read 20,899,000 times
Reputation: 47857
A couple quick notes here:

Butch McCain, weather guy on GJ's NBC's KKCO, showed some ugly pictures in Manitou Springs on his 5:45 weather show. Apparently Manitou Springs got socked with a huge rain yesterday that might have lasted only a half hour but created a mud wall because of last years Waldo fire. There's damage to a couple dozen homes, a brief evacuation of a low lying trailer/rv park, and briefly shut down U.S. Hwy. 24 for a short time.

They've been making a little progress on the East Fork Fire, which is east of Ridgway near Silverjack Reservoir. Looks like 40% containment according to the report.
 
Old 07-05-2013, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,420,129 times
Reputation: 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Insurance companies are starting to crack down on homeowners who don't have defensible space.

It's about damned time.

Excerpts:

1. "...readers howled about what they perceived as price gouging and heavy-handed tactics by insurance companies...."
2. "Marcy Morrison, retired Colorado Insurance Commissioner, called to suggest it may be time for the Division of Insurance or state lawmakers to establish a standard list of fire mitigation criteria for homeowners and insurance companies." Gee, ya think it might be....
I definitely agree with you on this. If you are going to choose to live in a high risk area and want to obtain homeowners insurance, you probably need to pay more for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idunn View Post
"I noted that several people had called me complaining they'd received inspection letters. A couple told me they'd been inspected and were told to cut down every tree, bush and shrub within 100 feet of their homes or face cancellation of their policies."

***
"We don't want everyone to start mowing down everything within 100 feet of their homes," she said. "We really want the areas within 30 to 50 feet of their homes to be really tight. We want to eliminate the fuels closest to the house. It's the first 30 feet surrounding the home that requires the most extensive mitigation.' [1]



Say goodbye to the forest.

Whatever does not burn in wildfires will be shorn by all the homeowners having moved into that once true forest, and otherwise "managed" and "thinned" to within an inch of its wild life by such as the U.S. Forest Service into some safer semblance of suburban park.

For anyone somehow unaware, a great deal of coercion can be effected through no more than the mandates of insurance. There will be precious few homeowners willing to tell their insurance adjuster to go to hell; with little to no—or, in some cases, great—complaints they will comply and do as told.

It doesn't seem to make much sense to move into a forest and then promptly eradicate it. But there you go.

On the other hand, insurance companies have been seemingly remiss in insuring ever more homeowners moving into areas once entirely wild and heavily forested, but somehow neglecting to consider the effects of our rapidly changing climate. A policy of one hundred feet of pre-scorched earth might on reflection seem too little to them. Take your average house or cabin built principally of wood, and hypothetically stick it in the midst of where the West Fork Fire has and is burning, and chances are it would have been incinerated, defensible space or not.

To be truly defensible when something major blows through would more or less require having the woods a good remove from one's home. Or, more than a few may discover that in practice they will have to move out of the woods if wishing insurance, or just that they might afford.

Alamosa is likely fine, and barren enough. In South Fork one is taking their chances. There are some trees spaced throughout town, but a great deal more as forest basically close on three sides. Perhaps just in case they could cut most of those down, and have that to look at. And maybe all the more prone to in being reminded that the West Fork Fire came within a couple miles of taking out the town, and still could.

400ppm, a tyrannical nanny state, and a PC and fearful population makes for a bad recipe. None of it good for the forest.


1) 'Side Streets: Wildfire insurance creating a ruckus,' The Gazette
Side Streets: Wildfire insurance creating a ruckus
Idunn, I typically agree with you on most posts. However, I don't regarding this one. Even if every single homeowner creates their defensible space, I assure you, there will be plenty of forest left. When you look at the state of Colorado, there is still plenty of wilderness and otherwise unpopulated tracts of land where forests will remain intact. Wildfire, insects and disease will remain the larger threat to the forests as a whole. In addition, most of the urban interface, or red zone, is in Ponderosa pine forest, which should resemble a park in it's natural state. The forest now, with all the homes and wildfire suppression, has chocked it so full of trees, which is leading to the problems we have now. Of course, the towns that are in the lodgepole forest are different, and should be relatively uniform and thick. However, there will still be plenty of lodgepole trees even if every person creates a 100 foot swath around their property.
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