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Old 03-20-2013, 12:54 AM
 
Location: high plains
493 posts, read 701,760 times
Reputation: 455

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i don't have an mmj card, so my cannabis is just common street quality. i use one toke at night to get to sleep and relieve muscle spasms (post-polio) and bad dreams (ptsd) and even constricted bronchial passages (copd). also relieves muscle and joint pains after walking a round of golf (carrying clubs), mowing a lawn, long exercise walks, moving furniture, and so on. from what i've read, the different relief effects arise from the different cannabinoids - psychoactive thc, cannabidiol cbd, etc. i've never had the chance to try non-thc cannabis, although i've heard there is some research going on in that area.

the mmj dispensaries and growers that i've read about seem mostly concerned with raising thc levels in the various indica and sativa strains. some of them do attempt to align certain strains with certain ailments. unfortunately, their marketing uses such weird strain names and cross-breeding genetics that it is hard to compare, say, white widow at one dispensary to white widow at another dispensary in a different city. there just doesn't seem to be any analytic rigor across dispensaries and caregivers. however, some of the hoped-for benefits of the Washington and Colorado regulations will involve standardized labeling, packaging, and growing practices.

i have come to see the whole mmj thing as very similar to other alternative herbal medicines such as st. johns wort and ginseng, maybe even the purported wonders of high-dose vitamins like C and E. might as well just put it up in the same section of the grocery stores. the grocery clerks can be just about as knowledgeable as a caregiver when it comes to medicine and healthcare. it will be a long time before doctors and pharmacists will able to give mmj advice, other than "try it and see what happens".
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:25 AM
 
Location: high plains
493 posts, read 701,760 times
Reputation: 455
dosage levels: one toke seems adequate for most of my ailments. a second toke, say in the morning or mid-day, has calming effects for the stresses and irritations of everyday life like heavy traffic, bad drivers, loud boomboxes, pesky neighbors, door-to-door salespeople, grocery store crowds, loud tv commercials. the list goes on. there doesn't seem to be a dose such as "toke til u puke". there is no puking at any dosage for me. i can barely finish a whole joint or bowl. i just get hungry, eat, then lay down and nap. that sort of dose is reserved for recovering from major life traumas - weekend toothaches, summertime electric bills, auto breakdown, wasp attacks, family holidays.

lingering/long-term effects: nothing very noticeable, at those dosages. maybe a bit less worrying, obsessing and anxiety, in general. still have normal (for me) ambitions, grooming habits, analytic ability, decision-making, social skills, golf scores, weight. drink less beer and very little liquor.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO - Capitol Hill
557 posts, read 665,305 times
Reputation: 513
My wife's aunt has terminal breast cancer that has spread. We actually talked about the MMJ issue with her. She was thankful that she has the option where she lives, and stated that she uses it to help with her appetite, and help counter some of the negative side effects of some of the medication she has to take daily.

BTW, calling it a "placebo effect" makes me wonder about one's familiarity with it.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Colorado
11,628 posts, read 7,195,062 times
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I know a couple of ladies who suffer from fibromyalgia and one who gets migraines who both claim great benefit from medicinal use. One of the fibro sufferers was given hardcore pain meds by doctors that addicted and incapacitated her, then discovered MMJ and was able to go off the prescription that was causing her serious detriment.

I think that it's important though, to find a balanced viewpoint. It might not be like wanneroo thinks it is, but it's not 100% harmless and side effect free. I have known more users (on personal acquaintance) who developed demotivational issues, a mild sort of addiction (irritability upon abstinence being the main symptom) and a general lack of caring about things that they should care about. I have known more than one person really who really train-wrecked their life with it, and what I find really important to express is that these were not people who were lazy losers without it.

I've also known daily wake-and-bake users who absolutely functioned as well as anyone else in every way.

But the "bad" cases are notable, and I despite my sincere support of legalization and my belief in the medicinal value, I won't dismiss the potential negatives as being something that say, only happens occasionally. I think that it's substantial. It needs to be taken into consideration. And users are generally in a very serious state of denial about it when it's happening to them, they need intervention from an outside source like a family member.

But I also ask myself...

If you're dying of cancer, and all conventional treatments have produced no healing effect, only more suffering, isn't it OK to not care quite so much?

If you've got chronic pain, severe chronic pain, will it not cause you to miss work and compromise your stability of life? What about the meds commonly prescribed for chronic severe pain? Their side effects can be severe. What about any number of drugs peddled by Big Pharma for any number of things that are far more disruptive, in general?

I look at the entire argument over MMJ and MJ overall and I try and be unbiased about it...I choose not to use, but strongly support the right of others to decide as they will. But that's kind of typical for me, philosophically speaking. Pot smokers aren't hurting me any, so it's none of my business. If my husband started smoking, I'd get upset, we would have a problem, Houston, unless he was already so disabled that it didn't matter if he lost all motivation or not (because you see, I've been there and done that, with him. And with myself. And my Dad. And any number of friends and acquaintances.) But I still wouldn't blame the plant or act like it should be illegal for everyone.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO - Capitol Hill
557 posts, read 665,305 times
Reputation: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobd04 View Post
Delivery systems have come a long way, Mike. And contrary to those who compare medical marijuana with cigarettes, a report from JAMA, cited in the article from Science News below, comes to a different conclusion based on -- SCIENCE! -- not propaganda.

Light pot smoking easy on lungs | Body & Brain | Science News

Marijuana Fights Cancer and Helps Manage Side Effects, Researchers Find - The Daily Beast

And here it is from international news agency, Reuters:

Pot smokers don't puff away lung health: study | Reuters

For those who still refuse to accept scientific reality and insist on believing the canard of the dangers of smoking pot, here's another bit of modern science to negate that argument and burst their propaganda bubble: No one needs to smoke it at all anymore!

Pax Vaporizer by Ploom

Or, medical marijuana can always be ingested through the digestive system in myriad recipes or elixirs available in states that aren't ruled by ignorant authoritarians who refuse to recognize science and/or are beholden to one of the several interest group who make their living off of that ignorance.

The Top Five Special Interest Groups Lobbying To Keep Marijuana Illegal | Alternet

Why Can't You Smoke Pot? Because Lobbyists Are Getting Rich Off of the War on Drugs

And get a load of this: While the irrefutable science is in and the ignorant continue to ignore it, while hundreds of thousands are arrested and incarcerated every year in this ignorant country, the banksters are laundering BILLIONS in drug money and getting away with it, which only goes to prove the entire, failed trillion dollar and still spending "War on Drugs" -- America's longest war in history, started by none other than Richard Nixon by executive order -- is a sham, a joke, and just another money making scheme kept in place by the same people who wage this ridiculous propaganda war.

They make billions laundering drug money. You go to jail for smoking a little pot. How ignorant is that?

Matt Taibbi: You Can Go to Prison for Pot, While Big Banks Get Away With Laundering Drug Cartel Cash | Alternet

Banks Financing Mexico Gangs Admitted in Wells Fargo Deal - Bloomberg

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/wo...agewanted=all&

Can you guess why they're keeping pot illegal now?

Daily Kos: STUNNING! Banksters launder foreign drug cartel money as Wells Fargo invests in for-profit prisons

Enjoy the light reading or, more likely for some of the posters above, remain in the dark. Just please stop insisting that the rest of us stay there with you.
Wow, what a great post. Full of win. For some reason though, it wouldn't let me give you rep for it? Weird.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:25 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,525,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I think that it's important though, to find a balanced viewpoint. It might not be like wanneroo thinks it is, but it's not 100% harmless and side effect free. I have known more users (on personal acquaintance) who developed demotivational issues, a mild sort of addiction (irritability upon abstinence being the main symptom) and a general lack of caring about things that they should care about. I have known more than one person really who really train-wrecked their life with it, and what I find really important to express is that these were not people who were lazy losers without it.
I've yet to see anyone get a net benefit out of being addicted to this drug and I've known tons of people on it. I have friends struggling with cannabis right now and one who has quit due to various health issues last year that if they kept up would have ended his life as he knew it. One relative who was a big smoker died at a reasonably young age from cancer. Cannabis sure didn't cure his cancer.

I've also seen the effects it has on people mentally. I find people on it get forgetful, mix times and history up, get paranoid, irritable over little things and are generally hazy.

It's a psychoactive drug, so when stoners tell me it has no effect, not only do I laugh because I'm not stupid, but why do you smoke it? Well they smoke it to get high, that's why. People want to tell me that has no effect on their brain and health? Come on, stop with the snow job.

Certainly if there are various compounds you can isolate in cannabis that could be used for pain, I'd be open to hearing about it, but as it stands right now people that use this stuff are no different than those chugging vicodin or codine pills or abusing other substances.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO - Capitol Hill
557 posts, read 665,305 times
Reputation: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
I've yet to see anyone get a net benefit out of being addicted to this drug and I've known tons of people on it. I have friends struggling with cannabis right now and one who has quit due to various health issues last year that if they kept up would have ended his life as he knew it. One relative who was a big smoker died at a reasonably young age from cancer. Cannabis sure didn't cure his cancer.

I've also seen the effects it has on people mentally. I find people on it get forgetful, mix times and history up, get paranoid, irritable over little things and are generally hazy.

It's a psychoactive drug, so when stoners tell me it has no effect, not only do I laugh because I'm not stupid, but why do you smoke it? Well they smoke it to get high, that's why. People want to tell me that has no effect on their brain and health? Come on, stop with the snow job.

Certainly if there are various compounds you can isolate in cannabis that could be used for pain, I'd be open to hearing about it, but as it stands right now people that use this stuff are no different than those chugging vicodin or codine pills or abusing other substances.
It almost sounds like you're making stuff up to try to help make your point, or at least incorporating elements of various rhetoric you've heard. That, or you are just incredibly out of touch.

So, everyone that uses MJ is a stoner? That's like saying everyone that drinks is a drunk. Have many different examples not been laid out in this very thread as to why some would choose to use MJ or MMJ?
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:49 PM
 
Location: high plains
493 posts, read 701,760 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post

I've also seen the effects it has on people mentally. I find people on it get forgetful, mix times and history up, get paranoid, irritable over little things and are generally hazy.
i find that old age has those same effects in some people

cannabis has an unfortunate tradition of hysteria and "boutique mystique" and media frenzy that make it a difficult topic for reasonable discussion on either side. it certainly isn't going to go away. at least, it is finally beginning to come out of the woods so the conversations can make some progress. The new Humboldt State University Institute for Interdisciplinary Marijuana Research in CA may help things along, even with the awkward, lousy name. CO universities would do well to follow suit in the new environment. if CA can get around the problems with federal research funding, surely CO can figure it out. mmj dispensaries could help by cross-breeding for milder thc levels, changing their marketing strategies, and enhance their professionalism. users could help by refraining from demonizing the prohibitionist forces, at the same time they stand their ground firmly for decriminalization and legalization. happy 4/20, all!
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:18 PM
 
20,836 posts, read 39,046,511 times
Reputation: 19073
Got this last night from my sister who fought/beat breast cancer two years ago: "I smoked it for pain the first Chemo treatment. They told me to take the meds I had following surgery ( oxycodone ) but that didn't put a dent in it (pain). Hubs got me some good sh*t, took two hits of it, slept for hours. I told the son and he was laughing, I said, what is so funny? He said, Ralph told me your Mom is going to take to or three hits and sleep like a rock. The first hit gets you high, didn't do a thing for me, the second one relaxes you, it did, and the third, well I never got that far, if I did I don't remember it. I haven't smoked any since, cost to much, ( about $400 an oz. ) my neighbor Danny also got me some, but my God what a wonder thing it was. "
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:48 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,525,426 times
Reputation: 7602
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD401 View Post
It almost sounds like you're making stuff up to try to help make your point, or at least incorporating elements of various rhetoric you've heard. That, or you are just incredibly out of touch.

So, everyone that uses MJ is a stoner? That's like saying everyone that drinks is a drunk. Have many different examples not been laid out in this very thread as to why some would choose to use MJ or MMJ?
Since it doesn't fit your template of what drug using is, I'm making stuff up? Right. So sad too bad. Don't waste my time with that nonsense.
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