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Old 02-06-2013, 09:58 AM
 
Location: 5280 above liquid
356 posts, read 513,556 times
Reputation: 383

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[quote=dude_reino;28119013]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCO5280 View Post

THEY are the problem? Who do you think is subsidizing your ski pass?

(Nice TGR slang-drop, BTW)
They don't subsidize my pass as most of them steer clear of the places I ride. However, if there weren't people out there willing to pay that steep of price just for a day of skiing, prices would have to self regulate.

(Haha at least someone caught it!)
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:03 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,777,680 times
Reputation: 9132
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Seems strange that you always see businesses making capital improvements to their business to better serve their customers as some sort of predatory, mean spirited attack on everyone. Very bizarre.

Vail/Aspen & Powderhorn/A Basin, for instance, it's 2 different types of businesses serving a very different customer base.

Vail is merely making sure they keep up with the times and that customers have a better experience when they visit the mountain, so people are not dealing with bathrooms from 1965 or archaic, falling down buildings.

I'm very dismissive of "man made" global warming. It's another apocalyptic dream propagated by the baby boomers who's ego has lead them to believe they are the "one" generation the world began with and hopefully they can take with them on the way out. It's also another method of wealth transfer and control of the younger generations by propagating this nonsense. More rules, more costs, more taxes.

Trends have shown it's getting colder and snowier over the past 10 years. Long after the boomers are gone it will still continue to snow in the Rockies and barring any societal collapse there will still be ski towns.
Last comment first: I don't know where you are supposedly getting your climate data, but it doesn't square with the data that I see--data from very long-term reputable sources. For me, it isn't about politics, it's too bad that it has become about that. It's about FACTS, and the facts about climate change are becoming increasingly convincing that man-made climate warming is occurring.

As to predatory competition, one can spot it pretty readily when most marketing efforts and capital investments become oriented toward stealing customers from one's competitors rather than developing new customers. If the latter were true in the ski industry, it would be endeavoring to cut lodging, food, and lift ticket prices sufficiently to attract younger (and economically "poorer") skiers to broaden their numbers of customers. Instead, most of the areas are doing just the opposite--trying to extract more and more revenue out of a customer base that is declining in numbers. In predatory competition, companies often get into what is a bidding race to "upscale" their services in order to attract customers from competitors. If the company has deep enough pockets, it may work for awhile, especially if the company is financially strong enough to outlast their weaker competitors. Sort of like this analogy: You are sharing food with 10 other people at the table. There isn't enough to go around. You have two choices: you can go out and try to grow more food; or you can kill five or six people sitting at the table, so the survivors (and you intend to be one of them) have enough food to eat. The Colorado ski industry is increasingly picking the latter strategy. That is predatory competition.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:12 PM
 
19 posts, read 31,707 times
Reputation: 45
Default And it is so!

The mighty has spoken! Armed with the facts no one else has access to and an army of "friends" and "acquaitances" that do everything. Let no mortal challenge him!
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:27 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,185,649 times
Reputation: 3351
[quote=dude_reino;28119013]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCO5280 View Post

THEY are the problem? Who do you think is subsidizing your ski pass?

(Nice TGR slang-drop, BTW)
I think you quoted the wrong person, but that is ok.
I know very well who is subsidizing my skiing, and I thank them by not skiing on weekends.

I understand that I am a "welfare skier", if the out of state tourists quit coming to Colorado, I am sure I could no longer afford to ski.

And I can not remember the last time I skied without something held together with duct tape.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,835,798 times
Reputation: 9316
jazzlover wrote: Last comment first: I don't know where you are supposedly getting your climate data, but it doesn't square with the data that I see--data from very long-term reputable sources. For me, it isn't about politics, it's too bad that it has become about that. It's about FACTS, and the facts about climate change are becoming increasingly convincing that man-made climate warming is occurring.

Gotta agree with this 100%! Based ONLY on 7 years of temperature records for Grand Junction, only 1 year out of the last 7 years have been below normal, but only slightly below normal. The trend is clearly a hotter than normal trend for this short period of time. But what makes this even more interesting to me, is that most of the winters during this time period have also been colder than normal, with summers being significantly hotter than normal to result in hotter than normal temperatures over the course of the entire year. No politics here....just the HOT hard numbers for this particular spot on the globe.

On a worldwide scale, wether man made or not, all of the top 10 hottest years on record have occurred since 1997. If this trend continues, the future of the skiing industry doesn't look too bright.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Cole neighborhood, Denver, CO
1,123 posts, read 2,445,057 times
Reputation: 1247
Whether global warming is 'man-made' or not is irrelevant. The truth is that the exponential population growth on the planet is going to eventually suck all the water dry and cause a disaster far sooner than the effects of global warming will.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:17 AM
 
1,561 posts, read 2,816,747 times
Reputation: 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Last comment first: I don't know where you are supposedly getting your climate data, but it doesn't square with the data that I see--data from very long-term reputable sources.
The earth is 6 billion years old. What do you consider long term?
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:40 AM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,525,426 times
Reputation: 7602
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
jazzlover wrote: Last comment first: I don't know where you are supposedly getting your climate data, but it doesn't square with the data that I see--data from very long-term reputable sources. For me, it isn't about politics, it's too bad that it has become about that. It's about FACTS, and the facts about climate change are becoming increasingly convincing that man-made climate warming is occurring.

Gotta agree with this 100%! Based ONLY on 7 years of temperature records for Grand Junction, only 1 year out of the last 7 years have been below normal, but only slightly below normal. The trend is clearly a hotter than normal trend for this short period of time. But what makes this even more interesting to me, is that most of the winters during this time period have also been colder than normal, with summers being significantly hotter than normal to result in hotter than normal temperatures over the course of the entire year. No politics here....just the HOT hard numbers for this particular spot on the globe.

On a worldwide scale, wether man made or not, all of the top 10 hottest years on record have occurred since 1997. If this trend continues, the future of the skiing industry doesn't look too bright.
I didn't know Grand Junction was a ski area. I guess you learn something new each day.

Just 2 winters ago Vail mountain had it's all time record for snowfall of over 500 inches and most of the years going back to 2003 have been good winters with plenty of snowfall.

The ski industry has had good and bad snow years since the beginning of the industry. It's something they've always had to deal with and always will.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:54 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 19,083,018 times
Reputation: 9513
This is not entirely off of the subject I hope, but I have been working with the military for over forty years. I have noticed that at the base sports stores where there used to be skis, snow boards, tennis rackets, etc., there is now nothing for outdoor use but golf clubs. Young people are not doing outdoor activities like they used to. They are now living in cyberspace.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
1,999 posts, read 2,130,568 times
Reputation: 2260
Tourist here. The only times I usually make it out to CO are to snowboard in Denver.

Regarding the drop off, the reasons are two fold. 1. Poor economy 2. Lack of snow

It is only about 10 months ago that the news was filled with stories of new/recent graduates forced to move back home because they could not find gainful employment. Stagnant household income means less disposable income.

I live in a city with a Delta hub. The cheapest $ it would cost me to snowboard out in CO would be $600
-$250-$300 plane ticket
-$40/day car rental (3 day stay)
-$60/night lodging in some motel
-$70/day lift ticket at Loveland

and that is for just 1.5-2 days of non-peak season riding. Traveling out there burns an entire day since Denver is at least an hour from the front range hills. You could rush out to Keystone for a night session if you didn't mind getting altitude sickness for the next day or two.

Riding for most of a week would cost at least $1000 and prices go up from there if you want to stay or visit near Breck or Vail.

This is not counting the initial capital investment for equipment. A savvy enthusiast can score used gear for $200-$300, minimum. People who haven't skied much are going to drop at least $200 on outerwear (gloves, shells, boots, hats) and another $200-$300 on gear (skis or boards).

That is a lot of scratch for a leisurely activity you can only do a couple months out of the year, half way across the country.... so its not surprising to me that a demographic with relatively high unemployment and lower wages (recent grads) might opt for other forms of entertainment.

I really like snowboarding, but like many others...my salary has not kept pace with inflation (partially my fault, i need to switch companies), and the number of trips out west I have taken has gone from 2 each year, to one last year, and (probably) none this year. I have only put 1 day on the slopes and it was on a 740ft-vertical mountain in North Carolina that I drove to. There is a small chance I'll head out west for a bachelor party.... but that depends on whether the prices are right that late in the season.

As for snow... even if I'd had the extra money, CO would have been last on my list despite the cheap(er than other destinations) airfare. If I am dropping a grand, then I am more inclined to spend an extra $150-$250 on my plane ticket to make sure there is powder where I am headed.
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