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Old 01-26-2013, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,840,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidv View Post
In the case of Ziggy, the dog was inside of a building (contained). Here are the errors in the actions of the police as I see them:

1. The deputy, who was responding to a burglar alarm, went to the wrong address.

2. Once at the wrong location, the deputy forced his way into the building.

3. The deputy's actions allowed the dog to leave the building, and the deputy shot the dog before the owner had a chance get the dog under physical control. The dog was returning to the building because it was under voice control.

4. The deputy told the owner to get a new dog. No apology.

The deputy also has a history with guns both on the force and off.

The deputy has already shot one "vicious" dog in its own back yard. The dog was acting aggressively because the deputy ran into the yard after a man with a warrant.

The deputy was also involved in the justified shooting during a traffic stop.

Before he became a deputy, he was charged with and pleaded guilty to illegally discharging a firearm and possessing an illegal knife.
That one I have mixed feelings about. First I'm not a big fan of cops, and I do think that most of them are way too trigger happy. That said, I cannot in my wildest imagination, imagine any cop taking out his gun and shooting a non-agressive friendly dog. Even the cop you described above. I just don't believe it happens.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,878 posts, read 102,269,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
That one I have mixed feelings about. First I'm not a big fan of cops, and I do think that most of them are way too trigger happy. That said, I cannot in my wildest imagination, imagine any cop taking out his gun and shooting a non-agressive friendly dog. Even the cop you described above. I just don't believe it happens.
You don't have to believe it; that's how it was described as happening.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,840,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You don't have to believe it; that's how it was described as happening.
That is not the way Sheriff's Department described it as happening. So you think that the Sheriff's Department is lying to cover up for a Deputy who shot and killed in cold blood a totally non-agressive cute little friendly doggy who was running away from him at the time? And you don't think that just maybe, just maybe there might be just a little tad bit more to the story then that?
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:30 PM
 
8,938 posts, read 8,040,153 times
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Something to consider. A lot of dog owners, think all dogs are cute, cuddly playthings that would never harm anyone. They forget, that a lot of dogs are just the opposite. They are dangerous beasts when aroused. They can tear up or kill a person in a heartbeat.

Maybe, just maybe those dogs that were shot were not cute, cuddly playthings.

As to a cop shooting a person 15 to 17 times to stop him. Most cops want to only wound a person not kill them when they shoot them. Those cops are not killers. If they shoot to wound someone and that does not stop them, they shoot to wound again, and if that does not stop them they shoot them again. Some people can take a lot of gunshots, and still keep operating. Look at some soldiers that have been shot several times, and still taken out a machine gun nest, etc. Soldiers that are shot several times, and carry a wounded buddy back to safety. These men get medals for this. I have seen deer shot through the lungs run nearly a mile before they fall dead.

Seeing people shot once and put out of action in a T.V. show, is a lot different than real life. If a gunshot is not a killing shot, a lot of people can keep being extremely dangerous. And big men can often take quite a few non lethal shots to stop them. If cops make wounding shots not killing shots, the person they are shooting can still need additional shots to stop them.

In real life a cop shoots a perp, hoping to put them out of action. If it does not stop them, they shoot again, and keep repeating till they are down for good either wounded and give up, or are dead.

If a cop was trigger happy, they would shoot to kill the first shot, not try to stop someone without causing death.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:22 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,777,680 times
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Having known a lot of law enforcement people over the years, I can not think of one of them who would shoot someone as anything but a last resort. oldtrader's comments above also ring true. One of the real big problems today is that people tweaked out on drugs like meth and PCP often display almost superhuman strength combined with no mental restraint at all. Those people can be extremely unpredictable and extremely dangerous. One officer that I know who was forced to shoot down a guy tweaked out on PCP (not in Colorado) had to empty a whole clip into the guy before the perp finally quit trying to come at the officer (with a Marine knife) and fell dead. No, it's not like TV.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:41 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,697 posts, read 4,330,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Another solution would be to make sure that your animal is 1. Non-aggressive. 2. Contained and under control at all times, no exceptions.

I find it difficult to have much sympathy for people, who's dogs get shot, while they at large and being aggressive to a cop. Nobody (cops, neighbors, whoever) should ever have to deal with any crap from your dog. It just shouldn't ever happen. People have a right to be able walk down the street without any interference from your dog. By interference, I mean so much as even barking at them.
Good luck with that. How have you made it this long with all those dogs who dare to bark when you walk by? I have a corgi who spends 2 or 3 hours a day (restrained) in my front yard. The rest of the time he is either going on long walks with me (again, restrained by a leash where appropriate, like in town, etc.) or inside my home doing important doggie things like snoozing. I live alone and I WANT my dog to bark at strangers who walk by my house - especially after dark. That's part of his job.

Now that that's out of the way...

I dislike making sweeping generalizations about dogs or cops or crazed law breakers or much of anything else. I was a bit of a wild child during my mis-spent youth, so I've probably had as many or more encounters with law enforcement as any other Coloradoan. Most of the officers I've had dealings with have been reasonable men and women - except for the guy who zapped me with his radar gun outside Castle Rock when I was 17 and driving about that same number of miles over the speed limit. That was my very first traffic citation. I figured my Dad would kill me when he found out, and I burst into tears. Officer Meanie wrote me a ticket anyway.

In the years since, I've encountered many cops who were pretty good policemen and one or two who should never have been allowed to join the force. Colorado is no better or worse in that regard than any other state. I don't know enough about the Boulder incident to really comment on it, although the officer in question should have known that those wimpy, liberal Bambi lovers in the Repuplic of Boulder were going to set up an out cry.

Going to the dogs again, of course a cop shouldn't shoot an animal that has really done nothing wrong. Oldtrader brings up a good point though about dogs allowed to run wild and causing problems with farmers' and ranchers' livestock in rural areas. If oldtrader were my neighbor out here, I'd only hope that he'd give me the heads up the first time my dog escaped and done wrong. As a responsible dog owner I'd take steps to ensure there was no second time and I'd pay any damages incurred. If I or anyone kept letting a dog run wild like that, a rancher would be well within his rights to destroy it before it wrecked more havoc.

Unfortunately, there are too many dog owners like the woman I met at the local dog park here in Cortez. Other dog owners at the park had already informed me that her shepard mix had a habit of attacking other dogs - in two cases the dogs that the shepard attacked were seriously injured with high vet bills incurred. One afternoon the woman who owned the mean dog accosted me and began to complain about how everyone was so unfair and her dog was a complete angel. Her diatribe was interrupted by a sudden series of frantic yelps, and we turned to see my little corgi on its back with the "complete angel" getting ready to tear out my smaller dog's throat.

There are two sides to every story. Had animal control or the local deputy come along and shot that shepard, I wouldn't have had a qualm over his action. The dog's owner no doubt would have called up the local paper and screamed about trigger happy deputies in Cortez, and the rest of Colorado would falsely get the idea that Cortez is under the thumb of the local gestapo. NOT.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,626 posts, read 11,019,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
I don't know enough about the Boulder incident to really comment on it, although the officer in question should have known that those wimpy, liberal Bambi lovers in the Repuplic of Boulder were going to set up an out cry.
It's not about "liberal Bambi lovers" in this case. Anyone who expects professional conduct out of law enforcement has a right to be outraged over this incident and that includes conservatives as well. I am very pro-law enforcement. But when an officer decides to illegally shoot an elk ON DUTY he is displaying a lack of judgment and ethics so great that it really calls into question his ability to be trusted with a badge.

The fact that we have a law enforcement officer illegally poaching an elk is pretty bad. That he did it on duty is even worse. That he brought a buddy in on it is worse as well. That there was a second officer who allowed himself to be brought into it...

I don't want to give the impression that I am down on police. I've already said that I am pro-law enforcement. But bad police officers and sheriffs deputies do exist. Thankfully we still have a system in tact enough to remove some of these corrupt or unethical officers. In a lot of countries that is not the case. And considering the number of law enforcement officers in the State of Colorado, I'm not ready to let a few incidents define how I view all of them.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:56 AM
 
2,514 posts, read 3,486,397 times
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If the police did a home invasion on me and let my dog out of my house in the process and then proceeded to shoot it I would say that was completely out of line. We need to prosecute such malpractice to the full extent of the law. Obviously these officers were completely incompetent for going to the wrong address. How would you feel if they burst into your house? The person inside and the dog were completely law abiding citizens. They were inside their own property minding their own business. Even if the dog was aggressive (and it didn't sound like he was) he had a right to be when armed/aggressive individuals burst into the house.

In terms of discharging firearms in a residential area to take down a non threatening elk? What the heck could they have been thinking? Imagine sitting in your home in Boulder when a poorly aimed or ricocheting bullet comes through the wall and lodges itself in your kids head. This happens in gang neighborhoods all the time. The residents of Boulder have the right to be outraged.

Shooting a tazed dog in its own garage? Thankfully someone videoed it as the police will say anything to justify their actions. Now the officer faces felony charges. This officer was trigger happy.
Colorado Police Officer Shoots And Kills Dog In Garage- [VIDEO]
"If you’re a dog lover like me this will make you very upset. Police officers out of Commerce City, Colorado had responded to a call that a pit-bull was on the loose in a neighborhood. They found the pit-bull in its own garage and cornered the dog with two police officers and animal control. A neighbor from across the street captured the video as they watched a police officer taze the pit-bull first, the dog flopped around and as the police officers went near the wounded dog, the dog then tried to escape out the garage while the lady from animal control hooked a noose around the pit-bulls neck.
The dog seemed like it was scared and it was trying to escape, at that point the officer pulled out his pistol and shot the dog 5 times killing the dog. It makes me very upset to see the officer be so quick to pulling out his gun and killing the dog.
One of the shots fired at the dog the bullet had ricochet off the ground and was found stuck in the car across the street. My opinion is the dog was not the attacker here. The POLICE attacked the dog. Not only did they kill the dog who was scared, but they also could have put innocent kids who were in the neighborhood at harm because the bullet that had ricocheted off the ground could have hit them."


Are they all trigger happy? No. I'm sure many of their colleagues were appalled. Should the officers involved in these incidents be allowed to continue in their jobs? Absolutely not.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:32 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,697 posts, read 4,330,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
It's not about "liberal Bambi lovers" in this case. Anyone who expects professional conduct out of law enforcement has a right to be outraged over this incident and that includes conservatives as well. I am very pro-law enforcement. But when an officer decides to illegally shoot an elk ON DUTY he is displaying a lack of judgment and ethics so great that it really calls into question his ability to be trusted with a badge.
Word - I am probably one of the more liberal members of the CD forums, although not much of a Bambi lover. My comment was meant to be sarcastic while addressing the one obvious thing about shooting an elk in the center of Boulder - people are going to be upset.

I finally got around to looking at the link provided about the story and was amazed to read the words "After finding and killing the elk near Ninth Street and Mapleton Avenue with a shotgun..." Holy Smokes! That was the neighborhood I lived in when I was an undergrad at CU back in the day. Some fool cop and his buddy decided that it was a good idea to go hunting just a few blocks from campus? Complete idiots, those cops. Hope they get every book in Norlin Library thrown at them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic111
In terms of discharging firearms in a residential area to take down a non threatening elk? What the heck could they have been thinking? Imagine sitting in your home in Boulder when a poorly aimed or ricocheting bullet comes through the wall and lodges itself in your kids head. This happens in gang neighborhoods all the time. The residents of Boulder have the right to be outraged.
Now that I know that the incident happened around Nineth and Mapleton, I feel exactly the same way you do. College kids and everyone else are out and about in that area all the time. The cop with the shotgun must have been smoking too much medical marijuana.

Quote:
Shooting a tazed dog in its own garage? Thankfully someone videoed it as the police will say anything to justify their actions. Now the officer faces felony charges. This officer was trigger happy.
Colorado Police Officer Shoots And Kills Dog In Garage VIDEO
I love animals more than what is probably good for me. If I saw a cop tazer my blameless dog or any other innocent animal, and then shoot it, the fur would fly in more ways than one. That incident was caught om videotape, so people could see what was going on and that it was wrong. However, absent videotaping and/or neutral witnesses, the public can't ever really know for sure. Like the dog park example I gave above, some people with vicious dogs refuse to admit their animal is a menance to others. In such cases, the police are well within their rights to destroy an animal which may be attacking them or some other person.

Last edited by Colorado Rambler; 02-03-2013 at 01:51 PM..
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,840,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
Good luck with that. How have you made it this long with all those dogs who dare to bark when you walk by? I have a corgi who spends 2 or 3 hours a day (restrained) in my front yard. The rest of the time he is either going on long walks with me (again, restrained by a leash where appropriate, like in town, etc.) or inside my home doing important doggie things like snoozing. I live alone and I WANT my dog to bark at strangers who walk by my house - especially after dark. That's part of his job.
And why do you think its OK for your neighbors to have to listen to your dog barking away for two or three hours a day? Which it probably isn't two or three hours, it's probably ten or more hours a day, like most people who leave their dogs chained up outside.

You dog owners remind me of other self-centered groups of people. Like bicyclists who think that they own the roads, and that traffic laws don't apply to them, and cigarette smokers who think, or used to think, that they had a right to smoke where ever they want. Guess what? They don't have that right anymore. They abused their right and they lost it.

The world doesn't revolve around you and your dogs.
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