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Old 02-05-2013, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Colorado - Oh, yeah!
833 posts, read 1,433,607 times
Reputation: 1032

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
No, but it is rather beyond the scope of LAW to discuss such abstract concepts as whose love and devotion merits societal acceptance and recognition.

The money, and other legal and contractual rights and obligations, is where the law needs must concern itself. And to make sure that the rights of all are upheld yet infringe upon no other.

As for marriage being an institution that favors women by binding men to provide...that's kinda silly. I've known plenty of men who wanted marriage so that they could rest easy with the sense that this one woman is theirs and theirs only. My own husband was one of them. I didn't care if we made it official or not, and we were getting MASSIVE tax incentives (due to the kids and our income levels) for staying unmarried. But he wanted it, it meant something to him, so we did.

In my opinion, a married straight couple with no children has more in common with a committed gay couple (also no kids) than they do a family WITH kids. Once children are involved, the obligation on both parties is, and should be, increased exponentially. You are no longer a couple, you are a family. With or without a piece of paper.
Sonic,

I can't disagree with anything you said; I was responding with sarcasm to Bideshi's comments.

Your point about the scope of the law vs abstract concepts is, I think, key to this whole issue. We are trying to codify abstracts concepts (and religious points of view) in this messy conglomeration we call "marriage" which has societal, legal AND religious aspects. At least two of those three parts are quite dynamic and can change fairly rapidly.

It is, perhaps, time to consider the separation of Church and State again and allow the legal aspect of marriage (call it a legal union) to be wholly separated from the religious aspect.

Have your church ceremony that isn't a legal commitment or have your legal ceremony that your individual God may or may not approve of. Those that choose to do so can combine them as they see fit.

On a completely different subject I am not able to rep you any more right now which is a real shame because you have had some killer posts lately!

Last edited by Prodigal Native; 02-05-2013 at 11:22 AM..
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Colorado - Oh, yeah!
833 posts, read 1,433,607 times
Reputation: 1032
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
Phetaroi, I actually took Prodigal Native's comment to be sarcastic, based on their other posts.
Extreme sarcasm, I was a little worried about how that comment would be received, but I hoped the face-palm would help to clarify.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Colorado
11,622 posts, read 7,195,062 times
Reputation: 20930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigal Native View Post
Sonic,

I can't disagree with anything you said; I was responding with sarcasm to Bideshi's comments.

Your point about the scope of the law vs abstract concepts is, I think, key to this whole issue. We are trying to codify abstracts concepts (and religious points of view) in this messy conglomeration we call "marriage" which has societal, legal AND religious aspects. At least two of those three parts are quite dynamic and can change fairly rapidly.

It is, perhaps, time to consider the separation of Church and State again and allow the legal aspect of marriage (call it a legal union) to be wholly separated from the religious aspect.

Have your church ceremony that isn't a legal commitment or have your legal ceremony that your individual God may or may not approve of. Those that choose to do so can combine them as they see fit.

On a completely different subject I am not able to rep you any more right now which is a real shame because you have had some killer posts lately!
Thanks!

Something I try real hard to keep in sight on these forums, is that people do have plenty of right to see things how they do, if we want to ever see a world where people aren't at each other's throats with increasingly effective deadly force, we're going to have to work out as a species the fine art of agreeing to disagree. I like gay people, and support equal rights for them. But I get that some folks find the notion disgusting...and they've got a right to. Serves me no good to get upset about it.

But at the same time, I find plenty of people out in the world disgusting, yet am not pushing to legislate against them. If we could make a law banning support of everything that disgusted us, then people like Snooki and Honey Boo Boo wouldn't be getting paid to appear on television. Half of the people at Walmart wouldn't be permitted to leave the house! Lots of folks who probably shouldn't breed wouldn't be allowed to. Honestly I'm amazed at how many things are way more gross than gay marriage...but no one is doing anything to prevent those things, because the people perpetrating them have the freedom to do so. 'Merica!! lol
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:28 PM
 
16,438 posts, read 19,083,018 times
Reputation: 9513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Thanks!

Something I try real hard to keep in sight on these forums, is that people do have plenty of right to see things how they do, if we want to ever see a world where people aren't at each other's throats with increasingly effective deadly force, we're going to have to work out as a species the fine art of agreeing to disagree. I like gay people, and support equal rights for them. But I get that some folks find the notion disgusting...and they've got a right to. Serves me no good to get upset about it.
I appreciate that you feel we can agree to disagree. It is regretably true that some issues, such as abortion, gun rights, and same sex marriage are so heatedly divisive that anger is too often the prevailing emotion.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,174 posts, read 20,955,081 times
Reputation: 4258
Talking Civil Unions For Gay Couples In Colorado Closer To Reality

Some good news, from my perspective, so I thought I would post it here.

This is from KKTV - Colorado Springs/ Pueblo:

A bill that would make it happen cleared a committee Wednesday. The proposal is expected to be voted on by the full house next week, the last step before the governor's desk.

The link: Civil Unions For Gay Couples In Colorado Closer To Reality
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Colorado
11,622 posts, read 7,195,062 times
Reputation: 20930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Some good news, from my perspective, so I thought I would post it here.

This is from KKTV - Colorado Springs/ Pueblo:

A bill that would make it happen cleared a committee Wednesday. The proposal is expected to be voted on by the full house next week, the last step before the governor's desk.

The link: Civil Unions For Gay Couples In Colorado Closer To Reality
I'm happy to hear it! Thanks for sharing!
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:07 AM
 
1,163 posts, read 1,198,316 times
Reputation: 929
Well, it looks like Colorado has become too liberal for me. Time to find another retirement choice.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:08 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 19,083,018 times
Reputation: 9513
Very regretably, same here.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:12 AM
 
13,292 posts, read 25,459,767 times
Reputation: 20363
I have never understood what legal standing "civil unions" have, if any. Are there two lines aat City Hall, two signs, "Marriage Licenses" and "Civil Unions," and couples come out the other end with the same rights and responsibilities? Is it because people prefer to save the word "marriage" for hetero couples?
If not, what rights and responsibilities accrue to the same-sex couples who become civilly united?
I have never been interested in marriage for myself, although I am hetero. I have never liked the idea of my relationship (should I be fortunate enough to have one) being a contract with the state- which is what civil marriage is. People don't seem up for having a religious marriage without a civil license, so...
I live in Massachusetts, first state to have same-sex marriage. I say, let gay people mess it up as much as straight people have.
Of course, no religion or cleric should be involved if it is contrary to the religion (another thing I don't believe in for myself). So, is a same-sex civil marriage different from a civil union?
This has confused me for some time.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,211,765 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
I have never understood what legal standing "civil unions" have, if any. Are there two lines aat City Hall, two signs, "Marriage Licenses" and "Civil Unions," and couples come out the other end with the same rights and responsibilities? Is it because people prefer to save the word "marriage" for hetero couples?
If not, what rights and responsibilities accrue to the same-sex couples who become civilly united?
I have never been interested in marriage for myself, although I am hetero. I have never liked the idea of my relationship (should I be fortunate enough to have one) being a contract with the state- which is what civil marriage is. People don't seem up for having a religious marriage without a civil license, so...
I live in Massachusetts, first state to have same-sex marriage. I say, let gay people mess it up as much as straight people have.
Of course, no religion or cleric should be involved if it is contrary to the religion (another thing I don't believe in for myself). So, is a same-sex civil marriage different from a civil union?
This has confused me for some time.
I'm gay and I honestly don't know what rights a CO civil union will give me. Maybe they hand you a packet explaining it! My partner and I registered as a "domestic partnership" with the city of Denver (had to for me to get on his medical benefits) and we did it at the same window as marriage licenses. The certificate they gave us so pleasantly pointed out that were in no way "married". The ironic thing was that we were waiting around all these young straight couples (probably most of whom will end up divorced) while we were there with our two children and had already been together 15 years.

Maybe Colorado is finally tipping to "blue state status" for good
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