Taxes? (Denver: transporting, buy, income)

[Seeker5in1]

What is the likely impact on property taxes of the new marijuana law in your expectation. I anticipate more people on public assistance and health care at taxpayer expense, and higher taxes. Am I being unreasonably concerned? What do you think?

[lurtsman]

Completely unreasonable. Taxes will go down, not up.

[cowboyxjon]

Originally Posted by lurtsman

Completely unreasonable. Taxes will go down, not up.

They'll probably stay the same, or eventually go up (since we're on our way to becoming California). Really depends on where in Colorado you are living, I guess.

[artisan4]

Colorado has a revenue-starvation amendment called TABOR, which will hopefully be revoked at some point so that education and other public sector needs can be adequately funded. We have a regressive flat tax system but hopefully something like Prop 103 can be revived now that we are moving to blue state status.

[lurtsman]

I doubt Tabor will be revoked. Some people (my family included) made Colorado our destination because of bills like Tabor. We'll fight hard to keep it in place. Government is often irresponsible, and the best way to handle that is to limit their revenue so they can not afford to fund pet projects. If they misuse the revenue they are allowed to collect, then it is time for them to find new jobs.

From an economic perspective, there is now a chance to tax a new substance which will provide substantial income--especially in the time before other states enact similar legislation. The history on Alcohol, a very similar drug, provides a clear economic case of what will happen. Theory and history coincide very well in this case.

The illegal system for transporting and selling pot is very ineffective. When Walmart can sell it the cost to deliver it to consumers will be vastly lower even if the product is hit with a 200% tax at the end. We won't have to waste time and money locking people up for having one ounce, so we'll have less people in the courts and the jails, which can either be closed down or rented out to other states. We'll collect a large amount of revenue because illegally sold pot will be more expensive and dangerous than the stuff at walmart, effectively killing the drug trade for pot. That means less dealers to jail and more income for the state.

I have no interest in helping this state become a California. Are we talking about their absurd housing prices--nope we don't have those building restrictions. Their traffic--nope we have enough roads (in the springs at least). Their tolerance of gay people--actually I wouldn't mind at all if we were accepting gay people. If that's the way we are "becoming California", that is just fine with me.

[iknowftbll]

I agree with lurtsman on TABOR. A government that considers a sensible limit on their power to be a handicap is not worthy to govern in the first place. The fact that Colorado is trending blue is even more justification for TABOR. "Tax and spend" is how California has reached a point of fiscal crisis. Colorado can trend blue or purple or back to red and it won't affect the state adversely if they uphold TABOR. Repeal TABOR and the state will be in a fiscal mess because the government will no longer have the people "imposing" limits on them.

[GoneNative]

Originally Posted by artisan4

Colorado has a revenue-starvation amendment called TABOR, which will hopefully be revoked at some point so that education and other public sector needs can be adequately funded. We have a regressive flat tax system but hopefully something like Prop 103 can be revived now that we are moving to blue state status.

Prop. 103 lost by roughly 30 points when it was placed on the ballot in 2011--less than two years ago. That itself sort of undermines the whole "blue state status" idea. That state is deeply conservative on fiscal issues, and will continue to remain a deeply divided, competitive state in terms of party politics for years to come. Democrats are going to push a major tax-hike onto voters this year, and they will again be chastened by a state is so much more conservative than they realize.

[GoneNative]

Originally Posted by iknowftbll

I agree with lurtsman on TABOR. A government that considers a sensible limit on their power to be a handicap is not worthy to govern in the first place. The fact that Colorado is trending blue is even more justification for TABOR. "Tax and spend" is how California has reached a point of fiscal crisis. Colorado can trend blue or purple or back to red and it won't affect the state adversely if they uphold TABOR. Repeal TABOR and the state will be in a fiscal mess because the government will no longer have the people "imposing" limits on them.

There is actually an argument that TABOR is what gave Democrats a shot in Colorado. Until TABOR, Republicans could run against taxes (and, therefore, Democrats) and win easily in a fiscally conservative state. But once TABOR was passed, it basically took tax hikes completely off the table in the legislature, and, therefore, it also took that galvanizing issue off the table for Republicans. I don't know if I buy that, but it's an interesting argument.

Colorado's fiscally conservative tax code and business environment is absolutely what makes it very different than California. Cultural conservativism and liberalism will trade shots in Colorado, each with some success, but I can't see an economically liberal vision doing well in Colorado on a consistent basis.

[GoneNative]

There's an online poll on the Denver Post's website right now with a question to readers about whether legislative Democrats are overreaching with their liberal legislation this year. Out of 13,000 votes, so far, about 90% say "yes," 9 percent say "no," and 1 percent say "not sure."

I know it's a very un-scientific poll, being online and easily manipulable. But the Post is an infamously liberal paper with a readership that isn't know for its conservatism. And even assuming that conservatives are swamping the Post's website, 90% of 13,000 voters is a stunning number.

So much for the whole "trending blue" business.

[iknowftbll]

Originally Posted by GoneNative

There is actually an argument that TABOR is what gave Democrats a shot in Colorado. Until TABOR, Republicans could run against taxes (and, therefore, Democrats) and win easily in a fiscally conservative state. But once TABOR was passed, it basically took tax hikes completely off the table in the legislature, and, therefore, it also took that galvanizing issue off the table for Republicans. I don't know if I buy that, but it's an interesting argument.

I'd buy that argument, but TABOR has been around since 1992 and the state has been solid blue and red at times since then. I think ultimately it's a state that will forever more drift from one side to the other, staying blue for a few cycles then trending red again for a few cycles.

Originally Posted by GoneNative

Colorado's fiscally conservative tax code and business environment is absolutely what makes it very different than California. Cultural conservativism and liberalism will trade shots in Colorado, each with some success, but I can't see an economically liberal vision doing well in Colorado on a consistent basis.

This is very true and it also speaks the other point that you made in your other post. Colorado isn't really a conservative or liberal state, it's a very libertarian state. Stuff like marijuana and gay marriage will be voted in by the same people will will vote down tax increases and gun control measures.