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Old 03-21-2013, 12:18 PM
 
Location: 5280 above liquid
356 posts, read 513,418 times
Reputation: 383

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
No one is infringing on anyone's rights to own any of thousands of makes and models of firearms; long or short barrel, rifled or smooth bore, muzzle or breech loader, or how many of them. If I want a hundred generic hunting rifles, it'll still be perfectly legal for me to do so.
That's what I meant when I stated bit-by-bit. They'll take small steps to chip away at our rights under the disguise of adding "safety" and "security". Once citizens adjust to the small useless change, they'll chip away at another aspect of said right until they get to their final goal of abolishing our 2nd Amendment right.

Quote:
No matter the topic, those who can't maintain a civil, intelligent, logical stream of thought don't belong here.
Very much agreed

 
Old 03-21-2013, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO - Capitol Hill
557 posts, read 665,080 times
Reputation: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
I believe it won't. Despite the lies told by the MSM, most Americans are opposed to it. A background check is de-facto registration which is prelude to confiscation.
For the sake of staying on topic, I'll delete my original post.

Two quick, shorter points though:

National poll after national poll (not the MSM) suggests that this poster is not correct.

Because of successful lobbying by the NRA to limit the ATF's enforcement ability, it is not as easy as is apparently believed to track down, and confiscate weapons. Federal law prohibits the confiscation of weapons outside of criminal activity. That specific prohibition would have to be overturned in and of itself for your "doomsday" scenario ever to come close to happening

Last edited by JD401; 03-21-2013 at 01:08 PM..
 
Old 03-21-2013, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO - Capitol Hill
557 posts, read 665,080 times
Reputation: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Now that some of the laws have passed, I've re-opened it for discussion. I want to see the discussion stick to the Colorado laws, i.e., which ones did and didn't pass and what you perceive the impacts are or aren't. If we get back into name calling, wild scenarios, and other stuff that seems like nonsense, then I'll close this thread for the last and final time and not allow any more threads on this topic. I may issue more infractions too for those who can't play nice.

IIRC there were 7 laws proposed, IIRC 3 were passed, 2 were withdrawn and 2 are still open for action.

Does anyone want to recap the 7 laws?
Would someone mind giving the Cliff's Notes version? I currently live in Mississippi, but will be moving to Colorado later this year. I had lived in Alabama for 20+ years prior to making a temporary move a couple months back. Our gun laws are extremely lax around these parts, to say the least.

One small example, to get a CCP in Alabama, all that was required was filling out a personal information form, photo I.D., and $20 I think it was. I would guess that they probably ran a quick background check to check for any felonies as well. After initial application, you can renew by mail each year.
 
Old 03-21-2013, 01:07 PM
 
20,836 posts, read 39,041,284 times
Reputation: 19042
Concealed carry is alive and well in COLO. If you've a clean record you should be able to participate. IIRC there are threads in the COLO forums that can be found with a quick search or a quick google on the net.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:13 PM
 
Location: 5280 above liquid
356 posts, read 513,418 times
Reputation: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD401 View Post
This conspiracy/slippery slope theory has no basis in reality. People need to come off it. It shouldn't be a right vs left issue. It's a common sense issue. How can anyone have a legitimate problem with requiring background checks? This is not 1740 where there is a concern over tyrannical government.
Why is it not common sense to state that any background check will be placed into a nationwide database? You choose to take the Government at it's word, but you begrudge individuals who don't trust they're motives? You believe our government isn't on the verge of becoming tyrannical- others disagree, though history has plenty of examples of this.

I believe those against the rights of citizen gun ownership (free from any fed regulations) are for the right of the Government to control and keep all guns. Not a good combination.

“All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.”

- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6, 1938[LEFT]
Nazi's didn't confiscate weapons, they had you turn them in or face jail time or fines.
[/LEFT]

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
 
Old 03-21-2013, 01:24 PM
 
77 posts, read 95,943 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCO5280 View Post
Why is it not common sense to state that any background check will be placed into a nationwide database? You choose to take the Government at it's word, but you begrudge individuals who don't trust they're motives? You believe our government isn't on the verge of becoming tyrannical- others disagree, though history has plenty of examples of this.

I believe those against the rights of citizen gun ownership (free from any fed regulations) are for the right of the Government to control and keep all guns. Not a good combination.

“All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.”

- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6, 1938[LEFT]
Nazi's didn't confiscate weapons, they had you turn them in or face jail time or fines.
[/LEFT]

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
Yet another gun-enthusiast poster in this thread gives an example of Godwin's Law. I believe this is what Mike was talking about with respect to having to close the thread because of illogical arguments to the effect of "the government is going to come and take my guns, just you wait and see". Arguing from the perspective that any and all regulations are a de facto proof that gun confiscation is just around the corner does not make a very strong case to the rest of us who are not preparing for civil war nor in favor of letting others do so.
 
Old 03-21-2013, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
2,394 posts, read 4,298,874 times
Reputation: 7531
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbelvedere View Post
Yet another gun-enthusiast poster in this thread gives an example of Godwin's Law. I believe this is what Mike was talking about with respect to having to close the thread because of illogical arguments to the effect of "the government is going to come and take my guns, just you wait and see". Arguing from the perspective that any and all regulations are a de facto proof that gun confiscation is just around the corner does not make a very strong case to the rest of us who are not preparing for civil war nor in favor of letting others do so.
Not every gun enthusiast is preparing for civil war, the zombie apocalypse, etc..

I usually just go in the mountains and shoot paper targets or clays. Sometimes maybe even a milk jug.
 
Old 03-21-2013, 01:32 PM
 
Location: 5280 above liquid
356 posts, read 513,418 times
Reputation: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbelvedere View Post
Yet another gun-enthusiast poster in this thread gives an example of Godwin's Law. I believe this is what Mike was talking about with respect to having to close the thread because of illogical arguments to the effect of "the government is going to come and take my guns, just you wait and see". Arguing from the perspective that any and all regulations are a de facto proof that gun confiscation is just around the corner does not make a very strong case to the rest of us who are not preparing for civil war nor in favor of letting others do so.
I reiterate my previous comment "You choose to take the Government at it's word, but you begrudge individuals who don't trust (them)?"

And your claim that the Government has our best interests at heart is somehow a stronger argument?
 
Old 03-21-2013, 01:52 PM
 
77 posts, read 95,943 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCO5280 View Post
I reiterate my previous comment "You choose to take the Government at it's word, but you begrudge individuals who don't trust (them)?"

And your claim that the Government has our best interests at heart is somehow a stronger argument?
Rereading my post, I cannot see where you pulled that one from. So I reiterate my citation to Godwin's Law and bow out from this thread. We'll see where the wind blows in 2014. You see your distrust of government as a blanket authority to have any and all firearms that you want, free of regulation. I disagree. So I suppose I do begrudge you a world where guns are totally free from regulation, but I completely disagree that this therefore implies that the logical outcome of my views is confiscation. There's a massive area in between those extremes, and the slippery slope argument is unconvincing.

Last edited by sbelvedere; 03-21-2013 at 02:01 PM..
 
Old 03-21-2013, 02:24 PM
 
20,836 posts, read 39,041,284 times
Reputation: 19042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snikt View Post
Not every gun enthusiast is preparing for civil war, the zombie apocalypse, etc..

I usually just go in the mountains and shoot paper targets or clays. Sometimes maybe even a milk jug.
All of which is awesomely cool, and no one has any gripe with you / that. Here near COLO SPGS we did have some doofi (plural of doofus) go up into Pike National Forest, with whatever sort of firepower, and shoot at trees until they cut the trees in half. I don't get it. I just don't. Target shooting and tin can plinkers aren't a problem.

Back in the days of open trash dumps and open burning, we'd take our 22s down to the local dump, at night, sit on the hood of my '62 Ford convertible, headlights on, and when the eyes of rats shone back at us, we'd fire. Plain old young guy stuff, no one cared. One hasn't lived until they get a whiff of a pile of dead blue crabs and crab shells smoldering off to the side.

Arguments about slippery slopes are contrivances by strident believers to throw up roadblocks and stonewall on the need for a sensible set of limits and boundaries. No one is coming to take anyone's guns, unless they're murderers, robbers, carjackers, etc. We have a government with 3 branches and a damned good set of checks and balances that have worked fine for over 200 years, through some very tough times too, and all I've ever seen, for the most part, is a government that is benevolent to the max with health care, jobless supports, lots of tax breaks, roads, parks, and a hundred other beneficial things. I will not fear our government unless and until it becomes a theocracy.
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