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Old 03-13-2013, 02:52 PM
 
Location: The Berk in Denver, CO USA
13,949 posts, read 20,201,871 times
Reputation: 22575

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
in the next few years UN troops will be stationed on our soil
Silly.
They will be The Peoples Liberation Army. The UN is not capable.

 
Old 03-13-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Colorado
11,628 posts, read 7,203,216 times
Reputation: 20946
Honestly I just want status quo, life to go on, and things to quit being shaken up. I grew up taking a lot of things for granted. Roe v. Wade decided the argument it was pertinent to, end of story. We have the right to bear arms, end of story. Now I feel like every time I turn around, some governmental entity is saying, "you little people can't be trusted to make decisions. We need to fix the laws to make them for you." If it's not one thing it's something else.

I hear endless talk along the lines of what you guys call "paranoia." I really hope you're right. Whatever happens, I hope it's nothing like what my old man and all his buddies in and out of the military are talking...but no matter what anyone says, I can't just take at face value that any part of the government, state or federal, really has our best interests in mind anymore. I don't know who is right, if any of us are, and I don't have the answers. But to just tell him to shut up because I'm tired of hearing about it and worrying about it...feels a little...I don't know...head-in-the-sand, to me. That's just a gut instinct talking.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,174 posts, read 20,959,783 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Honestly I just want status quo, life to go on, and things to quit being shaken up. I grew up taking a lot of things for granted. Roe v. Wade decided the argument it was pertinent to, end of story. We have the right to bear arms, end of story. Now I feel like every time I turn around, some governmental entity is saying, "you little people can't be trusted to make decisions. We need to fix the laws to make them for you." If it's not one thing it's something else.

I hear endless talk along the lines of what you guys call "paranoia." I really hope you're right. Whatever happens, I hope it's nothing like what my old man and all his buddies in and out of the military are talking...but no matter what anyone says, I can't just take at face value that any part of the government, state or federal, really has our best interests in mind anymore. I don't know who is right, if any of us are, and I don't have the answers. But to just tell him to shut up because I'm tired of hearing about it and worrying about it...feels a little...I don't know...head-in-the-sand, to me. That's just a gut instinct talking.
I have never shot a gun and never want to yet I support the right to do so. If Colorado had tried to ban any gun or make laws that I felt went to far I would be the first one to call them out on it. That being said I looked at the laws that could pass and they just don't concern me. I don't think it will be the end of our rights or the end of the world.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,627 posts, read 11,023,385 times
Reputation: 13847
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbelvedere View Post
The sequester will likely have even more of an impact on Colorado's economy than a few upset gun companies. I'd be surprised if there is such a "silent majority" on gun rights, especially since the number of homes with guns has been dropping for four decades.
This is questionable. Here's some data that tells another story:

Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993

From the link:

A clear societal change took place regarding gun ownership in the early 1990s, when the percentage of Americans saying there was a gun in their home or on their property dropped from the low to mid-50s into the low to mid-40s and remained at that level for the next 15 years. Whether this reflected a true decline in gun ownership or a cultural shift in Americans' willingness to say they had guns is unclear. However, the new data suggest that attitudes may again be changing. At 47%, reported gun ownership is the highest it has been in nearly two decades -- a finding that may be related to Americans' dampened support for gun-control laws. However, to ensure that this year's increase reflects a meaningful rebound in reported gun ownership, it will be important to see whether the uptick continues in future polling.

I think that gun ownership is likely at a pretty high level for modern times and that Americans are become less and less willing to give affirmative answers in these surveys. To many, gun ownership is a very private matter and many are unwilling to share their gun ownership status with a stranger over the phone.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 03:22 PM
 
Location: 5280 above liquid
356 posts, read 513,719 times
Reputation: 383
Some would benefit from reading The Law, by Frederic Bastiat.

"Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons, and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim — when he defends himself — as a criminal."
Frederic Bastiat

Eerily similar to today.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
2,394 posts, read 4,300,957 times
Reputation: 7531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
I have never shot a gun and never want to yet I support the right to do so. If Colorado had tried to ban any gun or make laws that I felt went to far I would be the first one to call them out on it. That being said I looked at the laws that could pass and they just don't concern me. I don't think it will be the end of our rights or the end of the world.
Maybe not, but it's slowly and bit by bit eroding rights away. There was a Dem in another state who admitted a universal background check bill was a prelude to them wanting to ban handguns completely.

I don't wear a tin foil hat, but I have to believe that these bills will not be the last.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,627 posts, read 11,023,385 times
Reputation: 13847
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCO5280 View Post
Some would benefit from reading The Law, by Frederic Bastiat.

"Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons, and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim when he defends himself as a criminal."
Frederic Bastiat

Eerily similar to today.
I agree entirely.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 04:03 PM
 
918 posts, read 983,858 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCO5280 View Post
Some would benefit from reading The Law, by Frederic Bastiat.

"Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons, and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim — when he defends himself — as a criminal."
Frederic Bastiat

Eerily similar to today.
Can't say I agree with Bastiat's views entirely, another example of the gentry that used the guise of liberalism and natural law to hide an ulterior view of the learned gentry as philosopher kings, but he was pretty spot on in his view of the dangers of the co-opting of the state by one social classes and the subsequent response by the rest of society. Oh, and his development of the concept of opportunity cost.

Last edited by wong21fr; 03-13-2013 at 04:27 PM..
 
Old 03-13-2013, 04:43 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,529,511 times
Reputation: 7602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
I have never shot a gun and never want to yet I support the right to do so. If Colorado had tried to ban any gun or make laws that I felt went to far I would be the first one to call them out on it. That being said I looked at the laws that could pass and they just don't concern me. I don't think it will be the end of our rights or the end of the world.
Of course that is how many choose to face the world when it comes to governments. "Doesn't impact me!", "It's not that big a deal!", etc.

But statists are smart enough to know major changes cause major disruptions, so instead they tickle you to death with more taxes and more regulations and laws. It attacks companies that make products and increases their costs and it takes regular people like me that stay out of trouble and it complicates my life and adds more costs. So over time they strangle and take away any freedom you have.

Listening to these idiots in the Colorado legislature makes me ashamed to be a Coloradan, that we have people that stupid, idiotic, insulting and demeaning to the citizens. When the next election cycle comes around, you can bet I have a list and will be checking it twice and we need to finger all the morons and find good citizens to replace them.

In addition, with 25000 firearms laws on the books of the state and federal governments, probably every day people commit felonies and have no idea they are doing so. By the end of it, all these states will have a million different rules for magazines for firearms and the firearm manufacturers, as they already have to do, is produce different products for different markets.

All Colorado is doing is adding more costs and time to people that are regular citizens. It's not going to stop criminals from committing crime.

I think what we ought to have is something similar to New Zealand's system, where you go through a process to obtain a firearms licence with different levels of endorsements, much like a drivers licence and then you can buy whatever you please, even have it sent through the mail directly to you.

Hence I think any background checks at all is massive retardation on the part of our politicians. Every time I buy a firearm, I have to sit through the same nonsense and same paperwork, over and over and over again. I should be able to show my licence, even have it verified and be able to buy and sell what I want.

I also find there are many out there who are completely clueless about the 2nd Amendment. If you read the founding fathers and their statements, the Bill of Rights and the 2nd Amendment is there to keep tyrannical governments from imposing themselves on you. It's not there for hunters, target shooters, sporting shooters, collectors, etc. It's there as a check against tyranny.

Does that sound silly? I'm sure to statists and lefties it does. However yet again those people do not appreciate history or just choose to ignore it. All one has to do is look at the 20th century and all of the millions of people that died around the world slaughtered by their own government, because they had no means to rise up and defend themselves. And I can bet many of those people were in denial right up to the point of their death.

Go back and read American history from 1765-1775. There are many parallels from then to today on how the British began to impose tyranny on the colonies, especially Massachusetts. We didn't fight them off with sticks and stones.

That is why we have military grade firearms and will continue to do so, laws or no laws.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,174 posts, read 20,959,783 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Of course that is how many choose to face the world when it comes to governments. "Doesn't impact me!", "It's not that big a deal!", etc.
That is not what I said. I said even though I have not shot a gun and have no desire to I support the right to do so 100% and if I felt these laws infringed on that right I would be very upset. I do not think these laws do that so I am not upset over them.
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