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Old 08-20-2013, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,217 posts, read 10,306,560 times
Reputation: 20199

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I don't care about all the details you guys are getting into.

If Weld County and others have a complaint about the way they are being treated in this state, let them get out there with a media campaign and convince other voters in the state to support their positions through the regular democratic process. Each persons vote in Weld County is = in value to each other person's vote in the state. No more, no less.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:24 AM
 
634 posts, read 1,344,899 times
Reputation: 798
Just read this
"Rademacher said Wyoming would be the obvious choice." from
Eight Colorado counties want to leave the state | The Daily Caller

As a native Coloradoan who moved to Wyoming 20+ years ago, thanks but no thanks. I bet our energy tax base is attractive to you, NoCo. But unless you are going to live in and become part of these communities that are being transformed by transient energy workers, whose landscape and water are being sold out to fracking and oil rigs, please don't ask for our dollars.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:12 PM
 
275 posts, read 142,885 times
Reputation: 56
Default Counties wanting to secede

Does anyone live in any of those counties? If so how do you plan on voting if you don't mind? I just wonder how much support the idea has.
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Eastern Colorado
3,768 posts, read 4,624,197 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyolady View Post
Just read this
"Rademacher said Wyoming would be the obvious choice." from
Eight Colorado counties want to leave the state | The Daily Caller

As a native Coloradoan who moved to Wyoming 20+ years ago, thanks but no thanks. I bet our energy tax base is attractive to you, NoCo. But unless you are going to live in and become part of these communities that are being transformed by transient energy workers, whose landscape and water are being sold out to fracking and oil rigs, please don't ask for our dollars.
The area talking about succeeding has just as strong of an energy tax base as Wyoming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prepper View Post
Does anyone live in any of those counties? If so how do you plan on voting if you don't mind? I just wonder how much support the idea has.
I currently live a couple of miles from Weld County, but grew up in Weld county and have my business there as well as many of my family members. Talking to people about this stuff it seems as if they are split 3 ways, some want to send a message to the state, some think it is a waste of time, others are serious about the whole deal and want it to happen. How representative of the whole population of the area the people I know are is yet to be seen, but they are tired of having their water rights trashed, their roads are in decay, and their schools get less state funding per pupil than just about anywhere else in the state while they are a net payer in state taxes.

People in the Denver metro area have no idea how bad some of the roads are, there are state highways that run through the area that get heavy traffic yet they have not been resurfaced in at least the 20 years I have been driving. Farmers in many areas lost water rights due to the state water courts giving senior water rights to towns and cities, many of them not even in those counties. And the schools, especially in Greeley are getting bad reputations, partially due to underfunding that is considerably worse than the school districts around Denver complain about.

I do not know whether this will work or not, but I can certainly understand why they want to make the statement to our state government.
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:19 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,797,284 times
Reputation: 9132
The dissatisfaction in the populace of more rural counties like Weld and other Eastern Plains counties can be attributed to the "Tyranny of the Majority." The Tyranny of the Majority occurs when a voting bloc becomes so large that it always can outvote the minority on a given issue. In Colorado, that majority voting bloc are metropolitan residents.

In Colorado, the metropolitan areas became such a super-majority nearly a half-century ago, but their power was tempered in the Legislature because many of the leadership positions (Speakers, Majority Leaders, Committee Chairs, etc.) were held by rural legislators, many whom had served for decades in the Legislature and had the seniority to maintain their powerful positions. As some of those Legislators died off or retired, that power was diluted somewhat, but the killing blow came for rural Coloradans when the voters imposed term limits on Legislators. Ironically, rural residents actually supported term limits more heavily than metro residents, not realizing that it would kill what little political power that was left in the rural areas. As term limits eliminated senior Legislators--most from the rural areas--those powerful chairmanships and other influential positions in the legislative process were almost universally filled by metro legislators. And rural Colorado has gotten the short end of the stick since.

Unfortunately, the power shift is pretty much irreversible now. That is one of the reasons that I gave up on staying in rural Colorado and moved out of state. Colorado certainly is not alone in having that issue. Of the Rocky Mountain states, metropolitan areas control the political process nearly completely in Arizona, Utah, and--to a certain extent--in New Mexico. Metro areas do not have a super-majority in Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho--though Idaho is close to there. In the Plains state adjacent to Colorado, Kansas and Nebraska have substantial metropolitan percentages, but those metro areas tend to be very reliant on the agricultural base of the rural counties for their economic well-being and that tempers their propensity to mistreat rural residents in the political process to a goodly extent. The same with Oklahoma, except that there the metro areas do have what is probably a super-majority.

Unfortunately, Colorado is so far down the path to self-destruction--not as far as hopeless California, but getting there--that nothing short of a national convulsion that "Balkanizes" entire regions into autonomous entities that share common interests will "save" it. As has been seen in other countries where Balkanization has occurred, often the "cure" has been worse than the disease, at least for a few decades.
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,217 posts, read 10,306,560 times
Reputation: 20199
Tough luck.

Power changes have happened in virtually state over the history of this country, albeit due to different types of changes. And well the power should change hands...at least in most cases.

The power shifted from the American Indians to the White man at one point. You probably liked that power change, jazzlover.

In the American south, after the Civil War, the power shifted from slave ownership to a different economic structure.

As rural states have become less rural, the power changes. This has happened at some point in time in virtually every state in the union to one degree or another. It's not unique to Colorado. The politics of NYS changed when the Erie Canal opened the cities in the western part of the state to further development (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany), and again when the power of Niagara Falls was more fully harnessed. In Maryland there's a dissonance between the D.C. suburbs and the rest of even that small state. In Virginia the northern suburbs of D.C. have modified the political landscape, taking the state from red to purple to a shaky blue. In Florida you have "Old Florida" in some regions, and "New Florida" in others.

Things change. Things evolve. The once powerful sometimes become the less powerful, and that is what is happening in Colorado. That's life.

I guess I'll say what you have often implied (if not said outright): if you don't like it, move (and some do -- every cloud has a silver lining).
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:01 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,797,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Tough luck.

Things change. Things evolve. The once powerful sometimes become the less powerful, and that is what is happening in Colorado. That's life.
Unfortunately, not all change is positive, and some change is positively destructive. I'm sure that there were some Germans who said, when Hitler was elected (and he was elected in the beginning), that "Well, change is inevitable, things evolve and that's life." One World War and 6 million dead concentration camp prisoners later, a whole lot of Germans probably wished they had been much less apathetic and sanguine about it. Oh, and the smart Germans who figured out what disaster lay ahead with Hitler, got out while they could and generally fared much better than the ones who stayed behind thinking (wishing) that things would be OK when it was blatantly obvious that they weren't going to be.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,217 posts, read 10,306,560 times
Reputation: 20199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Unfortunately, not all change is positive, and some change is positively destructive. I'm sure that there were some Germans who said, when Hitler was elected (and he was elected in the beginning), that "Well, change is inevitable, things evolve and that's life." One World War and 6 million dead concentration camp prisoners later, a whole lot of Germans probably wished they had been much less apathetic and sanguine about it. Oh, and the smart Germans who figured out what disaster lay ahead with Hitler, got out while they could and generally fared much better than the ones who stayed behind thinking (wishing) that things would be OK when it was blatantly obvious that they weren't going to be.
Anyone who would compare the coming of Hitler to a move toward the Democrat Party of the United States in Colorado ought to be taken out to the woodshed.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Ubique
4,141 posts, read 3,145,859 times
Reputation: 2632
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Anyone who would compare the coming of Hitler to a move toward the Democrat Party of the United States in Colorado ought to be taken out to the woodshed.
So, you are invoking punishment, violence to an opinion someone expressed? And somehow you are the reasonable and mainstream one, and the other party an oddball?

Can you not understand now why Weld Co wants to GTFO of your grip?
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:30 PM
 
20,853 posts, read 39,085,412 times
Reputation: 19115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
So, you are invoking punishment, violence to an opinion someone expressed? And somehow you are the reasonable and mainstream one, and the other party an oddball?

Can you not understand now why Weld Co wants to GTFO of your grip?
Jazzlover resorted to Godwin's Law by invoking a comparison to Hitler, and got properly called out for it. Doing so is a form of logical fallacy and is best not used as it's a bush league technique in debate.
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