U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 07-09-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Colorado
11,628 posts, read 7,199,518 times
Reputation: 20946

Advertisements

To the guys talking about rabbits, prairie dogs, and killing everything.

No, I'm no PETA hippie (kinda hate PETA actually, their animal "shelter" is an abomination but that's irrelevent.) My point is that human beings first unbalance stuff, and then when trying to intervene FURTHER to rebalance nature, we jack it up worse...there comes a time where we've got to ask ourselves if we're being the solution or the problem.

One extreme: Humans are a plague on nature, we should live like naked hippies in mud huts or else all kill ourselves. (Stupid.)

The other extreme: We should kill every other living thing we see. And then go looking for more in their habitats, and kill them too! Whee! (Just as stupid.)

First we slay all the predators because you know...they might eat our goats, or our children or our dog. Then the prey get all overpopulated and sick, so we've got to exterminate them too. Shall we only cease when the only creatures left live only with our permission, ie farm animals, pets, and "wild" animals kept in zoos? I'm not saying that it's groovy that you've got plague bearing rodents by your home. I'm saying, what is the big picture solution? Finding a sane middle ground isn't exactly a strong suit for many human beings.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-09-2013, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,884 posts, read 102,281,764 times
Reputation: 32946
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzco View Post
Rabbits. So many rabbits. . .
Sometimes they spread tularemia; last summer in Broomfield - Tularemia confirmed in Plaster Reservoir wild rabbit population:

I suppose there's a positive side for those who abhor the prairie dog; a few years ago, also in Broomfield, Broomfield prairie dog die-off blamed on tularemia:
Yes, there are tons of rabbits here in Louisville these days, multiplying like. . . . rabbits! Our cats have decided on "peaceful co-existence". But really, it feels like we live in a rabbit sanctuary. (Not that I'm complaining, mind you.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
To the guys talking about rabbits, prairie dogs, and killing everything.

No, I'm no PETA hippie (kinda hate PETA actually, their animal "shelter" is an abomination but that's irrelevent.) My point is that human beings first unbalance stuff, and then when trying to intervene FURTHER to rebalance nature, we jack it up worse...there comes a time where we've got to ask ourselves if we're being the solution or the problem.

One extreme: Humans are a plague on nature, we should live like naked hippies in mud huts or else all kill ourselves. (Stupid.)

The other extreme: We should kill every other living thing we see. And then go looking for more in their habitats, and kill them too! Whee! (Just as stupid.)

First we slay all the predators because you know...they might eat our goats, or our children or our dog. Then the prey get all overpopulated and sick, so we've got to exterminate them too. Shall we only cease when the only creatures left live only with our permission, ie farm animals, pets, and "wild" animals kept in zoos? I'm not saying that it's groovy that you've got plague bearing rodents by your home. I'm saying, what is the big picture solution? Finding a sane middle ground isn't exactly a strong suit for many human beings.
Humans are a part of nature.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2013, 06:25 PM
 
2 posts, read 4,131 times
Reputation: 13
The bunnies and whatever can come visit me and I won't charge them rent. I absolutely love the wildlife here and I get upset when I see rabbits, cats whatevers dead in the road. I think everyone should slow down and be on the lookout for them. What if they are a mother of a litter that is waiting hungrily for her to come home? I agree, they were here first and we have moved into and driven them out of their natural habitat. They don't seem upset with me and I have no problem with them.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2013, 09:14 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,697 posts, read 4,332,367 times
Reputation: 10278
Quote:
Originally Posted by proveick View Post
Anyone else getting sick and tired of people b*tching about the wildlife they encounter while living in their domain? Am I missing something - it's like moving next to an airport and complaining about the noise. Or next to a stock yard and b*tching about the smell. Get a brain people.
Move to the prairie and complain about the prairie dogs -
I'm probably going to draw some flak for this, but here goes:

I don't mind wildlife that shows up at my house. I've had everything from Abert's Squirrels to raccoons to deer to bears to mountain lions show up at some point or another. I especially loved the Mama bear and two cubs who showed up one afternoon to eat apples from a tree in my backyard in Palmer Lake. Looking out the window of my home in Palmer Lake and beholding a tail - which belonged to a cougar laying on the roof - also once made for an interesting start of the day.

I wish the deer wouldn't come eat my flower bulbs, but I get over it when they do.

The highways however, are an entirely different story. Driving the highways of Colorado - especially out here - has made me loathe bambi. There are years when the deer outnumber the bunnies and everything else. I consider deer to be worse than rats. At least a rat can't kill you, but a deer sure can. The first time I was ever in a car accident was when I was 32 and living in Durango. I was driving home on Highway 550 around 10:00PM. As I neared the outskirts of town a deer suddenly lept out of the darkness and landed right in the middle of the highway in front of my car. There was no way I could have seen it ahead of time, and I automatically hit the breaks and swerved to avoid it. My car went into a ditch and flipped over. The force of the impact threw me out of the car through the sun roof. My injuries were so severe that I almost died in the ER of St. Mary's Hospital. I was in the hospital for 6 weeks and went through two years of different surgeries before the doc's finally got me put back together.

I could relate many other stories that I know about such accidents - some of them fatal. I was very "lucky." I've hit deer at least 3 other times since then. Thankfully, the outcomes of those run-ins were less dire. The year I lived in Nucla (near the Colorado-Utah line) the deer were out in such numbers that people were afraid to drive after about 3:00 in the afternoon in the winter. A woman was killed near Gateway on Highway 145 when a deer came right through the windshield. Her safety belt and airbag did NOT save her life.

Yes, the "deer were here first," but predators like wolves and mountain lions were here first, too. The wolf population in Colorado was hunted to extinction. Mountain lions are killed all the time by ranchers concerned for their livestock. I understand this concern, but frankly, I'd rather have paid a rancher for his entire herd than go through what I did when I hit that first deer. My medical bills alone would have covered it with money left over to spare. I'll take a mountain lion over a deer every single time. Herds of cougars don't jump out in the middle of the road in front of my car, causing a horrific wreck. Deer are the animals which do that.

Without their natural predators to keep the population in check, deer breed like bunnies. Then there's not enough browse for all those deer to eat in the winter, and they die slow, cruel deaths of starvation. I'd rather die quickly from a bullet then starve to death slowly in the cold over a period of weeks or months standing in the snow at below freezing temperatures.

Since we no longer have natural predators, I'm glad that (responsible) hunters shoot deer. In bad years, I wish they would shoot more. You can have Bambi. I don't want anything to do with him.

PS: You can also have my share of pests like prairie dogs. Or else you can stop people from shooting the natural predator of the prairie dog - the coyote. But don't kill all the coyotes who were here first and then expect me to be happy about the infestation of prairie dogs which was artificially caused by man.

Last edited by Colorado Rambler; 07-15-2013 at 09:29 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2013, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
1,448 posts, read 2,355,378 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
I'm probably going to draw some flak for this, but here goes:

I don't mind wildlife that shows up at my house. I've had everything from Abert's Squirrels to raccoons to deer to bears to mountain lions show up at some point or another. I especially loved the Mama bear and two cubs who showed up to eat apples from a tree in my backyard in Palmer Lake. Looking out the window and beholding a tail - which belonged to a cougar laying on the roof - also once made for an interesting start of the day.

I wish the deer wouldn't come eat my flower bulbs, but I get over it when they do.

The highways however, are an entirely different story. Driving the highways of Colorado - especially out here - has made me loathe bambi. There are years when the deer outnumber the bunnies and everything else. I consider deer to be worse than rats. At least a rat can't kill you, but a deer sure can. The first time I was ever in a car accident was when I was 32 and living in Durango. I was driving home on Highway 550 around 10:00PM. As I neared the outskirts of town a deer suddenly lept out of the darkness and landed right in the middle of the highway in front of my car. There was no way I could have seen it ahead of time, and I automatically hit the breaks and swerved to avoid it. My car went into a ditch and flipped over. The force of the impact threw me out of the car through the sun roof. My injuries were so severe that I almost died in the ER of St. Mary's Hospital. I was in the hospital for 6 weeks and went through two years of different surgeries before the doc's finally got me put back together.

I could relate many other stories that I know about such accidents - some of them fatal. I was very "lucky." I've hit deer at least 3 other times since then. Thankfully, the outcomes of those run-ins were less dire. The year I lived in Nucla (near the Colorado-Utah line) the deer were out in such numbers that people were afraid to drive after about 3:00 in the afternoon in the winter. A woman was killed near Gateway on Highway 145 when a deer came right through the windshield. Her safety belt and airbag did NOT save her life.

Yes, the "deer were here first," but predators like wolves and mountain lions were here first, too. The wolf population in Colorado was hunted to extinction. Mountain lions are killed all the time by ranchers concerned for their livestock. I understand this concern, but frankly, I'd rather have paid a rancher for his entire herd than go through what I did when I hit that first deer. My medical bills alone would have covered it with money left over to spare. I'll take a mountain lion over a deer every single time. Herds of cougars don't jump out in the middle of the road in front of my car, causing a horrific wreck. Deer are the animals which do that.

Without their natural predators to keep the population in check, deer breed like bunnies. Then there's not enough browse for all those deer to eat in the winter, and they die slow, cruel deaths of starvation. I'd rather die quickly from a bullet then starve to death slowly in the cold over a period of weeks or months standing in the snow at below freezing temperatures.

Since we no longer have natural predators, I'm glad that (responsible) hunters shoot deer. In bad years, I wish they would shoot more. You can have Bambi. I don't want anything to do with him.
I had a lot of deer/auto issues in the 80s so I know where you're coming from. Then when I lived in an old neighborhood in Fort Collins it was squirrels. Those @^&*ers loved to tear up my exotic xeriscape plants (many of which were special-ordered from a nursery in Santa Fe). The cute animals always get more leeway then the others. There's even a name for it: "Bambi Syndrome". Still, I'd rather deal with deer and squirrels in my yard then polar bears or grizzlies.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2013, 09:23 AM
 
1,742 posts, read 2,690,361 times
Reputation: 1925
They were here before us and will be after us.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,422,340 times
Reputation: 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
I'm probably going to draw some flak for this, but here goes:

I don't mind wildlife that shows up at my house. I've had everything from Abert's Squirrels to raccoons to deer to bears to mountain lions show up at some point or another. I especially loved the Mama bear and two cubs who showed up one afternoon to eat apples from a tree in my backyard in Palmer Lake. Looking out the window of my home in Palmer Lake and beholding a tail - which belonged to a cougar laying on the roof - also once made for an interesting start of the day.

I wish the deer wouldn't come eat my flower bulbs, but I get over it when they do.

The highways however, are an entirely different story. Driving the highways of Colorado - especially out here - has made me loathe bambi. There are years when the deer outnumber the bunnies and everything else. I consider deer to be worse than rats. At least a rat can't kill you, but a deer sure can. The first time I was ever in a car accident was when I was 32 and living in Durango. I was driving home on Highway 550 around 10:00PM. As I neared the outskirts of town a deer suddenly lept out of the darkness and landed right in the middle of the highway in front of my car. There was no way I could have seen it ahead of time, and I automatically hit the breaks and swerved to avoid it. My car went into a ditch and flipped over. The force of the impact threw me out of the car through the sun roof. My injuries were so severe that I almost died in the ER of St. Mary's Hospital. I was in the hospital for 6 weeks and went through two years of different surgeries before the doc's finally got me put back together.

I could relate many other stories that I know about such accidents - some of them fatal. I was very "lucky." I've hit deer at least 3 other times since then. Thankfully, the outcomes of those run-ins were less dire. The year I lived in Nucla (near the Colorado-Utah line) the deer were out in such numbers that people were afraid to drive after about 3:00 in the afternoon in the winter. A woman was killed near Gateway on Highway 145 when a deer came right through the windshield. Her safety belt and airbag did NOT save her life.

Yes, the "deer were here first," but predators like wolves and mountain lions were here first, too. The wolf population in Colorado was hunted to extinction. Mountain lions are killed all the time by ranchers concerned for their livestock. I understand this concern, but frankly, I'd rather have paid a rancher for his entire herd than go through what I did when I hit that first deer. My medical bills alone would have covered it with money left over to spare. I'll take a mountain lion over a deer every single time. Herds of cougars don't jump out in the middle of the road in front of my car, causing a horrific wreck. Deer are the animals which do that.

Without their natural predators to keep the population in check, deer breed like bunnies. Then there's not enough browse for all those deer to eat in the winter, and they die slow, cruel deaths of starvation. I'd rather die quickly from a bullet then starve to death slowly in the cold over a period of weeks or months standing in the snow at below freezing temperatures.

Since we no longer have natural predators, I'm glad that (responsible) hunters shoot deer. In bad years, I wish they would shoot more. You can have Bambi. I don't want anything to do with him.

PS: You can also have my share of pests like prairie dogs. Or else you can stop people from shooting the natural predator of the prairie dog - the coyote. But don't kill all the coyotes who were here first and then expect me to be happy about the infestation of prairie dogs which was artificially caused by man.
I think you are absolutely right about this CR. I'm not against responsible hunting. In fact, I'd much rather eat an elk steak from an animal that happily lived it's life in the wild, than a feed lot raised animal any day. I also agree that we need hunting to control the population of wildlife since we have all but removed the natural predators from the ecosystem.

What I don't advocate (and I don't think you do either) is needless killing just because.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2013, 10:35 AM
 
Location: The 719
14,499 posts, read 22,341,939 times
Reputation: 13809
Quote:
Originally Posted by proveick View Post
Anyone else getting sick and tired of people b*tching about the wildlife they encounter while living in their domain? Am I missing something - it's like moving next to an airport and complaining about the noise. Or next to a stock yard and b*tching about the smell. Get a brain people.
Move to the prairie and complain about the prairie dogs -
On the surface, your logic seems to be reasonable. Just move somewhere that is a good fit for you.

Why WOULD someone move next to an airport and complain about the noise? Gee I don't know. Maybe it's a part of town they can afford. Maybe they're feeling fortunate to get out of the rat-race world of rentals and found a place that it near their work, near decent schooling, etc.

Why would folks live near a waste water treatment plant or down-wind from one and complain about the smell? Makes no sense, right?

Well the fact of the matter is that there are what would be called buffer zones around such places. Maybe for a time, there would be nothing but other industries parked around the buffer zone of such a place. But the more we populate the earth and the further sprawl continues out from a city, the longer and longer the collection systems into these treatment plants. By the time the collected waste hits that plant, it comes in more septic and destoys the transportation system along the way. Land development and overpolulation causes land values to increase. People move closer and closer to these buffer zones from which they didn't in times past. People demand a more strict odor control.

People demand different flight routes. People move from their city and in my case, out into the county, where they can still obtain employment, be near family and friends, to be within at least an hour of a decent airport.

The truth of the matter is in the details. It's not always a simple answer. It would seem wise for people to live in the most beautiful spot on the planet that they can inhabit. Oh, wouldn't that be along the east and west coasts for us US Americans? Well how's that working out? Pretty well, right? What population of us live there? Should the rest of us move there as well and leave these darned prarie dogs alone? Sounds good. How much for that studio one block off the beach in Torrance? Can I rent the pad for under 2400/month?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmcg View Post
The bunnies and whatever can come visit me and I won't charge them rent.
That's good. I don't like paying rent either. Our two cats don't pay any rent. We think they're demoCats. But the reason they don't pay rent isn't because I'm so altruistic as you. We just can't get them to cough up the cash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
To the guys talking about rabbits, prairie dogs, and killing everything.
Baiting.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2013, 11:30 AM
 
129 posts, read 216,429 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
Without their natural predators to keep the population in check, deer breed like bunnies. Then there's not enough browse for all those deer to eat in the winter, and they die slow, cruel deaths of starvation. I'd rather die quickly from a bullet then starve to death slowly in the cold over a period of weeks or months standing in the snow at below freezing temperatures.
And yet Mule Deer populations in Colorado have been declining since the 1970s, mostly due to people "moving in" with them.

Colorado among states struggling to stop decline of mule deer herds - The Denver Post
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2013, 11:40 AM
 
Location: The 719
14,499 posts, read 22,341,939 times
Reputation: 13809
There ya go. If you can't believe The Denver Post, what can you believe?
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top