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Old 08-10-2013, 01:39 PM
 
1,059 posts, read 1,636,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
You mean like Audrey Kishline, the founder of Moderation Management? The gal who thought it would be ok to tell drunks it's ok to drink in moderation? Until she moderated herself to a 0.26, got behind the wheel, and killed a man and his 12 year old daughter? Oh, then she managed to blame A.A. over the deal. Nice. If you get sent to A.A. er- are offered an opportunity to bypass jail time by following a few simple rules, they suggest you abstain from booze. Most abstainers from booze usually appreciate it if you don't smell like bong-water too, but I think these are just suggestions... allegedly.
Yes, because it's not like they have a positive impact or anything. What does this have to do with anything I posted?

New Report Illustrates Positive Impact of Take-Home Naloxone Programs - Harm Reduction Coalition

Inaugural African American Hepatitis C Action Day, 7/25 Press Conference - Harm Reduction Coalition

Bipartisan Federal Plan Proposed to Reduce National Overdose Epidemic - Harm Reduction Coalition
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:43 PM
 
Location: The 719
14,505 posts, read 22,361,359 times
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You're the one who brought up harms reduction, right? MM is a part of that.

But as it applies to cannabis... despite the fact that it leads to respiratory disease, psychological damage to adolescents, dependence, and increased traffic incidents, we can decriminalize the thing and do away with discriminatory arrests to minorities and immigrants. Wonderful. But what happens when your sister gets rear-ended and injured by someone who was medicating their stress away while making a run for the border for Nachos Belgrande?

That harms reduction is a rigged-game where in Canada, they proved where patients were given Heroin in favor of methadone and it was shown the former recovered faster. Fair enough end of story, right? Then why did they have to give the latter such a low dose that they were bound to fail? Lies. Talk about follow the money? They're playing with people's lives to fulfill an agenda.

Harms reduction is a technique at best. It may work ok for some. Not the only game in town.
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,428,269 times
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I apologize if this has already been posted, but thought it was worth sharing. Marijuana stops child's severe seizures - CNN.com
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:33 PM
 
1,059 posts, read 1,636,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
You're the one who brought up harms reduction, right? MM is a part of that.
No they're not, they're a recovery program that help people recover from their addictions. Harm reduction organizations are not recovery programs. You apparently don't understand the difference since you conflate the two.

Quote:
But as it applies to cannabis... despite the fact that it leads to respiratory disease, psychological damage to adolescents, dependence, and increased traffic incidents
Wow, seriously? I think you confuse facts with opinions & speculation. You haven't presented any facts.

Study: Smoking Marijuana Not Linked with Lung Damage | TIME.com

As far as "increased traffic accidents", anybody who drives high, already does so. Nobody here condones it.

Report shows fewer traffic fatalities after states pass medical-pot laws - The Denver Post

We've already discussed the adolescent & dependence issues at length above. No need to rehash as it's not the original topic of this thread.
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:09 PM
 
20,853 posts, read 39,085,412 times
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Default Reminder

The story of Charlotte Figi is in the WestWord paper today, coupled with the story of Dr. Sanjay Gupta's change of mind; click here for that story.

On Sunday at 6PM, CNN airs an hour-long show with Gupta talking about weed and health. Here in COLO, Comcast HD viewers can see it on channel 736 and non-HD viewers can see it on channel 36.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:13 PM
 
Location: The 719
14,505 posts, read 22,361,359 times
Reputation: 13811
Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoJoe View Post
Wow, seriously? I think you confuse facts with opinions & speculation. You haven't presented any facts.
Smoking marijuana, even infrequently, can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, and cause heavy coughing. Scientists have found that regular marijuana smokers can experience the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers do, including:

Daily cough and phlegm production
More frequent acute chest illnesses
Increased risk of lung infections
Obstructed airways
Marijuana contains more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke and because marijuana smokers usually inhale deeper and hold the smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers, their lungs are exposed to those carcinogenic properties longer.
One study found that marijuana smokers were three times more likely to develop cancer of the head or neck than non-smokers. Many researchers believe than smoking marijuana is overall more harmful to the lungs than smoking tobacco.

Source: University of Washington

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoJoe View Post
No they're not, they're a recovery program that help people recover from their addictions. Harm reduction organizations are not recovery programs. You apparently don't understand the difference since you conflate the two.
From the harms reduction site; Harm Reduction Therapy respects that people use drugs for a variety of reasons.We explore those reasons and help people work on the things that drive their substance use. We collaborate with people to work with any issues each person deems important, in order of their priorities.

So, it's basically recovery for hippies, whoopty flip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoJoe View Post
We've already discussed the adolescent & dependence issues at length above. No need to rehash as it's not the original topic of this thread.
Fine, then save your breath.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:59 PM
 
1,059 posts, read 1,636,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
Smoking marijuana, even infrequently, can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, and cause heavy coughing. Scientists have found that regular marijuana smokers can experience the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers do, including:

Daily cough and phlegm production
More frequent acute chest illnesses
Increased risk of lung infections
Obstructed airways
Marijuana contains more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke and because marijuana smokers usually inhale deeper and hold the smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers, their lungs are exposed to those carcinogenic properties longer.
One study found that marijuana smokers were three times more likely to develop cancer of the head or neck than non-smokers. Many researchers believe than smoking marijuana is overall more harmful to the lungs than smoking tobacco.

Source: University of Washington
So where are the bodies? Where are all of the hospital cases? Notice the speculative "can" & "more likely to develop". I don't see anywhere in the list that they DO develop these problems. If these issues were actually happening, the entire anti-marijuana side would be making hay with it, every day. Where is it?

Had you even bothered to follow the links to the study I posted, you would have found that the the study was initiated to investigate the very items you list above..... yet no smoking gun was found. No sense following those links & reading about a relevant study & it's results, it might conflict with what you think you know.

So here's another one for you to ignore, from a rather reputable source I believe, Scientific American. Large Study Finds No Link between Marijuana and Lung Cancer: Scientific American

Quote:
From the harms reduction site; Harm Reduction Therapy respects that people use drugs for a variety of reasons.We explore those reasons and help people work on the things that drive their substance use. We collaborate with people to work with any issues each person deems important, in order of their priorities.

So, it's basically recovery for hippies, whoopty flip.
From what harm reduction site? Once again, had you actually followed the link I posted, you would understand that they are not a "service based" recovery organization that helps individuals. So please, by all means, follow this link and show me how they are "recovery for hippies".

What We Do - Harm Reduction Coalition

I can post links & references from reputable sources all day long, but since you don't bother to read them, you're obviously happy with all you think you know about marijuana.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:46 PM
 
Location: The 719
14,505 posts, read 22,361,359 times
Reputation: 13811
Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoJoe View Post
So where are the bodies?
Bob Marley, a Christian, died of cancer that spread to his lungs and brain. Started as a melanoma in his toe they say, but prove to me that weed didn't contribute.

From ProConOrg, deaths from marijuana, 0 for primary cause and 279 for secondary cause from 1997 to 2005. So there's some bodies. I would lump Marley into that category.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoJoe View Post
Had you even bothered to follow the links ...No sense following those links & reading about a relevant study & it's results, it might conflict with what you think you know.
Easy skippy. I'm not writing a term paper on the thing. I have no agenda to fulfill and the ink is dry on my sheepskin. I'll find my own sources thank you very much.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoJoe View Post
So here's another one for you to ignore, from a rather reputable source I believe, Scientific American. Large Study Finds No Link between Marijuana and Lung Cancer: Scientific American
Tomorrow, there's going to be a program on at 6 pm mst called Weed: Dr. Sanjay Gupta Reports and maybe we'll get to see some of the pros and cons of the issue.

In my prior personal observation of weed smokers, rarely do you have the person who tokes a tiny bit from a joint and puts it away for a week or a month. What about the chronic bong smoking fool who smokes the stuff through a steam roller? You telling me they aren't agitating their lungs just the tiniest bit? They look like they're going to blow a blood vessel in their head just trying to hold the smoke in. But, maybe this guy has become few and far between. Maybe weed is good for your lungs and can cure folks with lung cancer. I think I read that claim somewhere.

You get the pros claiming one thing, like how Washington State is set to raise 450 million or so in its coffers and Colorado 130 million, but the antis say that Washington figure is more like half of that and in both states, they may spend that much or more just regulating the stuff so neither state will gain much monetarily.

The pros state how much it will cut into the black market stating that weed accounts for 60% of the cartels profits where the cons (Rand Corp) say it's more like 15-26%.

"
The National Institute on Drug Abuse, meanwhile, says that marijuana causes an increase in heart rate, which could put users at risk for a heart attack or stroke. Marijuana smoke also contains carcinogens similar to those in tobacco smoke."

Oh, but there's always Jason David. His son is the one benefitting from the use of marijuana as it helps his seisures. That is wonderful and all, but I've heard that story on network tv about 50 times now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoJoe View Post
From what harm reduction site? Once again, had you actually followed the link I posted, you would understand that they are not a "service based" recovery organization that helps individuals. So please, by all means, follow this link and show me how they are "recovery for hippies".

What We Do - Harm Reduction Coalition

I can post links & references from reputable sources all day long, but since you don't bother to read them, you're obviously happy with all you think you know about marijuana.
From right there on the Harms Reduction site Skippy. harms reduction dot org or something like it. Look it up yourself.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:45 AM
 
1,059 posts, read 1,636,221 times
Reputation: 1928
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
Bob Marley, a Christian, died of cancer that spread to his lungs and brain. Started as a melanoma in his toe they say, but prove to me that weed didn't contribute.

From ProConOrg, deaths from marijuana, 0 for primary cause and 279 for secondary cause from 1997 to 2005. So there's some bodies. I would lump Marley into that category.
You're making the claim..... prove it yourself. I make it a habit to prove anything I claim. Even the government's CDC official statistics show 0 deaths attributed to marijuana.

Quote:
Easy skippy. I'm not writing a term paper on the thing. I have no agenda to fulfill and the ink is dry on my sheepskin. I'll find my own sources thank you very much.
So back up your claims instead of just making them.


Quote:
Tomorrow, there's going to be a program on at 6 pm mst called Weed: Dr. Sanjay Gupta Reports and maybe we'll get to see some of the pros and cons of the issue.
Yes, my DVR is set to record it. I'm anxious to see Mr TV Doctor's "mea culpa".

Quote:
In my prior personal observation of weed smokers, rarely do you have the person who tokes a tiny bit from a joint and puts it away for a week or a month. What about the chronic bong smoking fool who smokes the stuff through a steam roller? You telling me they aren't agitating their lungs just the tiniest bit? They look like they're going to blow a blood vessel in their head just trying to hold the smoke in. But, maybe this guy has become few and far between. Maybe weed is good for your lungs and can cure folks with lung cancer. I think I read that claim somewhere.
Just like some drinkers drink very little (like me) and some drink too much (like some people I know who have a problem), so no difference there really.

Quote:
You get the pros claiming one thing, like how Washington State is set to raise 450 million or so in its coffers and Colorado 130 million, but the antis say that Washington figure is more like half of that and in both states, they may spend that much or more just regulating the stuff so neither state will gain much monetarily.

The pros state how much it will cut into the black market stating that weed accounts for 60% of the cartels profits where the cons (Rand Corp) say it's more like 15-26%.
There will continue to be conflicting claims about financial benefits for years to come.

Quote:
"The National Institute on Drug Abuse, meanwhile, says that marijuana causes an increase in heart rate, which could put users at risk for a heart attack or stroke. Marijuana smoke also contains carcinogens similar to those in tobacco smoke."
There's that CAN again, not DO. Having discussed my regular use with my cardiologist, he is not concerned about it unless I had actual heart muscle issues (I have Coronary Artery Disease.... too many rich foods over my 60 years, my heart muscle is strong). I have also smoked with my family doctor socially before at his house & mine.

NIDA as a source of information is one sided. They are tasked with finding & reporting only negative information to support the war on drugs. They are not an objective organization in any sense of the word & are a staunch ally of the government in those efforts.

Quote:
Oh, but there's always Jason David. His son is the one benefitting from the use of marijuana as it helps his seisures. That is wonderful and all, but I've heard that story on network tv about 50 times now.
And you will hear more & more in the coming months because it is happening all over the country with sick children.

Quote:
From right there on the Harms Reduction site Skippy. harms reduction dot org or something like it. Look it up yourself.
Well if you can't be bothered to provide a link to prove your assertion, it's certainly not up to me to find it. You make the claim, it's yours to prove. That's how discussion forums work.

Some lovely Sunday links:

Do medical-marijuana laws save lives on the road? Do medical-marijuana laws save lives on the road? - Ideas - The Boston Globe

Excerpt:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Globe
A team of economists who specialize in health and risk behaviors looked at the link between marijuana laws and traffic deaths, and found that roadway fatalities dropped significantly in states after they legalized medical marijuana. On average, deaths dropped 8 to 11 percent in the first full year after the law went into effect, and fell 10 to 13 percent by year four. Five years out, the results grew more varied, and faded in some cases.
Guest column: Marijuana regulation combats teen use - Boulder Daily Camera

Excerpt:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boulder Daily Camera
Yet, the latest Youth Risk Behavior Survey (YRBS) reported by the Center for Disease Control found that teen marijuana use has actually declined in Colorado. In fact, Colorado adolescent consumption rates have even fallen below the national average. This same study also found that, in the era of government regulated marijuana programs, availability on school grounds in Colorado went from 22.7 percent in 2009 to 17.2 percent in 2011, a 5 percent drop overall. Availability to minors in Colorado is now 8.4 percent below the national average.
Have a nice day..
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:29 AM
 
Location: The 719
14,505 posts, read 22,361,359 times
Reputation: 13811
Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoJoe View Post
You're making the claim..... prove it yourself. I make it a habit to prove anything I claim. Even the government's CDC official statistics show 0 deaths attributed to marijuana.



So back up your claims instead of just making them.




Yes, my DVR is set to record it. I'm anxious to see Mr TV Doctor's "mea culpa".



Just like some drinkers drink very little (like me) and some drink too much (like some people I know who have a problem), so no difference there really.



There will continue to be conflicting claims about financial benefits for years to come.



There's that CAN again, not DO. Having discussed my regular use with my cardiologist, he is not concerned about it unless I had actual heart muscle issues (I have Coronary Artery Disease.... too many rich foods over my 60 years, my heart muscle is strong). I have also smoked with my family doctor socially before at his house & mine.

NIDA as a source of information is one sided. They are tasked with finding & reporting only negative information to support the war on drugs. They are not an objective organization in any sense of the word & are a staunch ally of the government in those efforts.



And you will hear more & more in the coming months because it is happening all over the country with sick children.



Well if you can't be bothered to provide a link to prove your assertion, it's certainly not up to me to find it...
Secondary cause, not primary. With Bob, that makes 270.

"Just like some drinkers drink very little (like me) and some drink too much (like some people I know who have a problem), so no difference there really."

There is a difference. Anybody can be an addict to drugs. Not everybody will become alcoholic. You can't drink yourself alcoholic. Anybody can become a non-addict to drugs. It may require a painful detox though. My source? My own experience for one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoJoe View Post
You're making the claim..... prove it yourself. I make it a habit to prove anything I claim.

So back up your claims instead of just making them.

Have a nice day..
I do the best I can sometimes from my Droid stupidphone.

Besides that, any link I would provide you would just shoot down as having an aganda with the gov't due to the War on Drugs.

I personally have no problem with people smoking weed nor making an industry from it. I would like to see a call for a well written amendment though.
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