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Old 08-18-2013, 05:09 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,703 posts, read 4,343,073 times
Reputation: 10302

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
A lot of people in this country need to grow the hell up and recognize that Wall Street, et al, donate heavily to BOTH parties, so that no matter who wins, they have their 'in' with the winners. Whining about Wall Street is pointless and so is whining about whoever is in the white house at any given time.

PERA isn't the only pension fund that's coming up short, there are hundreds of public and private pension funds in the same boat. Tons of corporate pension funds were ripped off by Wall Street's leveraged buyouts since the 1980's, so that guys like Mitt Romney can have their stinking garage elevators and fat bank accounts in offshore havens. What a country! Steal the working man's pension and live the lavish life. Tons more of failed airline pension funds have been picked up by the PBGA because our vaunted corporate world is more often than not run by people I wouldn't let scrub my ass.

Our governments are the only thing holding this country together; without them we will sink into street warfare like Syria.
Thank you.

I can't understand what the tea party thinks this country will be like with no Federal Government except the President, Congress and the defense department. Then they want no funding for education, no funding for social security, CERTAINLY no funding for any kind of health care, they HATE the idea of giving so much as a penny to Americans who need help getting back on their feet, no funding for food stamps - so little kids will go hungry if their parent(s) lose a job, no funding for regulatory agencies - no funding for a single thing that every other first world nation funds as a matter of course as an advanced society in 21st century civilization.

I've been in countries run only by a president and the department of defense - they're called military dictatorships. I've been places where there's no funding for schools, health care and law enforcement - they're called the third world.

If tea party members are so desperate to live in a third world country run by a military dictatorship, there's plenty of them close by in Latin America. I'm sure Paraguay would welcome tea party emigrants with open arms.
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Old 08-18-2013, 06:03 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,543,217 times
Reputation: 7604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
Thank you.

I can't understand what the tea party thinks this country will be like with no Federal Government except the President, Congress and the defense department. Then they want no funding for education, no funding for social security, CERTAINLY no funding for any kind of health care, they HATE the idea of giving so much as a penny to Americans who need help getting back on their feet, no funding for food stamps - so little kids will go hungry if their parent(s) lose a job, no funding for regulatory agencies - no funding for a single thing that every other first world nation funds as a matter of course as an advanced society in 21st century civilization.

I've been in countries run only by a president and the department of defense - they're called military dictatorships. I've been places where there's no funding for schools, health care and law enforcement - they're called the third world.

If tea party members are so desperate to live in a third world country run by a military dictatorship, there's plenty of them close by in Latin America. I'm sure Paraguay would welcome tea party emigrants with open arms.
We've let the fed government into education with a 30,000 person Dept of Education which has done nothing about nothing except spend tons of money. Education is a local issue and needs to be kept that way. It functioned just fine and people were educated just fine before the Fed stuck it's nose in.

Social Security is bankrupt next decade and if it was a private enterprise the people involved would be in jail. It's dead man walking. Same with Medicare, it goes bankrupt in 10 years.

Food stamps have turned into a massive handout and payoff with big fatsos stuffing their face with tons of junk at Wal Mart instead of getting off their lazy butt and working.

All federal involvement in health care has done has complicated it even more and driven up costs. Just about everyone is getting a health insurance increase in premiums. My premiums as a healthy person have already doubled and might end up increasing six fold.

The fact is we are broke as a nation with $17 trillion in debt.

The answer does not lay with government. Government has proven useless and bankrupted everything it has touched. The money is gone, your generation has partied hard and done nothing except spend money on junk and drive us into debt in this LSD hippie quest for taxpayer funded utopia.

The only answer out of it is getting rid of the 11% of GDP compliance costs on business and getting the federal government out of our lives. It's the only way to get out of the Great Depression we are in. The first time around in the Depression in the 1930's they did the same exact thing. Tons of government spending, tons of taxation, tons of regulation. It just destroyed the economy and it's doing the same thing right now.

We don't need triple levels of government in our lives and in every aspect of our lives. We have a government that stores all of our communications, most of our financial transactions, taxes every transaction we make, regulates everything we buy, imposes stupid brainless laws the people that pass them have no idea what they are passing. Time to get these people out of our lives and if it comes to civil war so be it.

All government is made up of people, all fallible and open to corruption. They are no smarter than you, no smarter than any citizen. That people look up to them as some all knowing all caring God is a short sighted move.

The best decisions you can make are your own, not what government can do for you. We all have the power of choice. People that chose to blow their money on other things in life and not save for retirement and build assets, well, those are the choices they made.

And in case you have not noticed, all these "first world nations" are broke too! All across Europe are austerity measures and some parts of Europe like Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, etc are imploding completely. Like Margaret Thatcher said, eventually you run out of other people's money to spend.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:02 PM
 
20,858 posts, read 39,100,793 times
Reputation: 19120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
Thank you.

I can't understand what the tea party thinks this country will be like with no Federal Government except the President, Congress and the defense department. Then they want no funding for education, no funding for social security, CERTAINLY no funding for any kind of health care, they HATE the idea of giving so much as a penny to Americans who need help getting back on their feet, no funding for food stamps - so little kids will go hungry if their parent(s) lose a job, no funding for regulatory agencies - no funding for a single thing that every other first world nation funds as a matter of course as an advanced society in 21st century civilization.

I've been in countries run only by a president and the department of defense - they're called military dictatorships. I've been places where there's no funding for schools, health care and law enforcement - they're called the third world.

If tea party members are so desperate to live in a third world country run by a military dictatorship, there's plenty of them close by in Latin America. I'm sure Paraguay would welcome tea party emigrants with open arms.
Agree fully. I wish those haters would go somewhere, anywhere, so we can get back to sanity and solvency.

Regarding the topic of this thread, PERA, there's an article in the Gazette today that tells some about the situation. After reading the piece, and the comments, it's obvious that PERA can be fixed without anyone slitting their wrists over it.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,849,592 times
Reputation: 9317
wanneroo wrote: Food stamps have turned into a massive handout and payoff with big fatsos stuffing their face with tons of junk at Wal Mart instead of getting off their lazy butt and working.

Sure beats WORKING at walmart in Colorado!

On a similar note. One benefit of ending food stamps would be shorter checkout lines at walmart in Colorado.



With regard to handouts....I've never seen you complain about the handouts that go to the corporations supplying the military in the latest war of the week. Food stamps to Colorado citizens are mere pennies on the dollar compared to corporate handouts like this.

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 08-18-2013 at 08:38 PM..
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:33 PM
 
20,858 posts, read 39,100,793 times
Reputation: 19120
The OP has his knickers twisted around his tender vittles over PERA, so everyone please stick to PERA and the state of COLO.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:11 PM
 
83 posts, read 125,522 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
The OP has his knickers twisted around his tender vittles over PERA, so everyone please stick to PERA and the state of COLO.
The moderator hurling insults - for shame! Why should others stick to the subject? You didn't. I think I got you a little riled up Mike? How is your Virginia pension fund doing Mike?
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,255 posts, read 10,317,442 times
Reputation: 20225
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
We've let the fed government into education with a 30,000 person Dept of Education which has done nothing about nothing except spend tons of money. Education is a local issue and needs to be kept that way. It functioned just fine and people were educated just fine before the Fed stuck it's nose in.

Social Security is bankrupt next decade and if it was a private enterprise the people involved would be in jail. It's dead man walking. Same with Medicare, it goes bankrupt in 10 years.

Food stamps have turned into a massive handout and payoff with big fatsos stuffing their face with tons of junk at Wal Mart instead of getting off their lazy butt and working.

All federal involvement in health care has done has complicated it even more and driven up costs. Just about everyone is getting a health insurance increase in premiums. My premiums as a healthy person have already doubled and might end up increasing six fold.

The fact is we are broke as a nation with $17 trillion in debt.

The answer does not lay with government. Government has proven useless and bankrupted everything it has touched. The money is gone, your generation has partied hard and done nothing except spend money on junk and drive us into debt in this LSD hippie quest for taxpayer funded utopia.

The only answer out of it is getting rid of the 11% of GDP compliance costs on business and getting the federal government out of our lives. It's the only way to get out of the Great Depression we are in. The first time around in the Depression in the 1930's they did the same exact thing. Tons of government spending, tons of taxation, tons of regulation. It just destroyed the economy and it's doing the same thing right now.

We don't need triple levels of government in our lives and in every aspect of our lives. We have a government that stores all of our communications, most of our financial transactions, taxes every transaction we make, regulates everything we buy, imposes stupid brainless laws the people that pass them have no idea what they are passing. Time to get these people out of our lives and if it comes to civil war so be it.

All government is made up of people, all fallible and open to corruption. They are no smarter than you, no smarter than any citizen. That people look up to them as some all knowing all caring God is a short sighted move.

The best decisions you can make are your own, not what government can do for you. We all have the power of choice. People that chose to blow their money on other things in life and not save for retirement and build assets, well, those are the choices they made.

And in case you have not noticed, all these "first world nations" are broke too! All across Europe are austerity measures and some parts of Europe like Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, etc are imploding completely. Like Margaret Thatcher said, eventually you run out of other people's money to spend.
1. The Department Of Education: Well, I'll give you that...to some extent. But I will also tell you that as I have traveled in the third world, educators would ask me to explain our national education program, and when I told them there was none, that it was mostly left up to the individual states and local communities, their mouths would sometimes literally drop open.

2. My former secretary, like you, complained constantly about Social Security. But when she turned 65 she was more than happy to accept the benefits...as was her husband who retired early for medical reasons. You're all hypocrites on that issue.

3. I've been hearing the SS and Medicare are going bankrupt for most of my adult life. Funny, it hasn't happened.

4. I have some concerns about food stamps. But all the people on food stamps are not lazy. And I doubt they're any fatter than the average person at the last Republican convention.

5. To be honest with you, I don't believe your health insurance has gone up as much as you say, nor will go up as much as you predict. Mine haven't increased any larger percentage since Obamacare began than they did any other year in the past several years.

6. For a country that is in a great depression, we're living kinda high on the hog.

7. I'm a Democrat. I don't know any hippies, nor anyone who has tried LSD.

8. Most of that federal regulation you ***** about occurred because of what big business did to the citizens of this country.

9. All the "first world nations" are broke. Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. So I guess you really do want us to be a "third world nation". Now that's patriotism! (In case you're to dull to get it...that's sarcassm).

Now, in regard to PERA, pension systems all around this country -- both public and private -- need some fixing. A pension is a contract with an employee, and contracts need to be honored. The pension system I'm in, as an educator, is making commitments to improve its status, but is not doing that badly. It is relatively healthy in terms of its investments, and the Republican governor had made a commitment to do the right thing. Our pensions make up for the shortchanged contracts we got. There were times teachers didn't get a raise in 3 or more years...and that didn't happen just once. Now I expect my state to fulfill the contract it made with me. There's a famous line in an old poem -- "a promise made is a debt unpaid". Governments and private corporations need to pay their debts to their pensioned employees. Anything less is unAmerican.

Last edited by phetaroi; 08-18-2013 at 10:42 PM..
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:02 AM
 
83 posts, read 125,522 times
Reputation: 129
I would opt out of SS tomorrow if I could. And here is a news flash, defined benefit pension plans in the private sector are gone. I have to save a quarter of my income to retire.

Just let me know when I can invest in PERA or an equivalent plan for private citizens. Make sure it is taxpayer guaranteed please.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:42 AM
 
3,492 posts, read 4,941,008 times
Reputation: 5382
This thread may need a lock. Within the first page most people had stopped thinking. I really wish thinking could be the new craze.

The gaming of the system creates a path for lack of integrity. The retirees that are hardly being paid because they did not game the system are the one who are hurt most by the lack of transparency at the top. Requests for information were in the best interest of the majority of retirees because the majority receives the minority of the payments. They were not in the best interest of all of the retirees because it would lead to changes that would stop those at the top from getting six figure payments at the expense of the members that did not game the system. The entire rule set is poorly designed, and the last thing that will fix it is people getting off topic and rambling about their emotional involvement, much less calling names.

This forum is meant for debate. The original topic is worthy of debate. The content of the thread is not doing the original topic justice.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:51 AM
 
919 posts, read 985,654 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by contiempo View Post
I would opt out of SS tomorrow if I could. And here is a news flash, defined benefit pension plans in the private sector are gone. I have to save a quarter of my income to retire.

Just let me know when I can invest in PERA or an equivalent plan for private citizens. Make sure it is taxpayer guaranteed please.
Only a quarter? Jesus you're screwed. You need to be saving at least half to have any kind of decent retirement once we abolish SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. If not you'll either be eating dog food to survive or will opt for the early lifespan withdrawal.

The more likely scenario is that you won't retire and will continue to work until you are dead. Not that that is a necessarily bad option especially if you want to transfer a portion of your wealth to your descendants.
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