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Old 11-02-2013, 05:48 AM
 
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I live in a condo that has not been renovated since the building was built in 1970; 43 years ago . It has baseboard heating . How often do these baseboard heaters have to be updated to put out the appropriate amount of heat to warm a unit 720 ft. How can you tell if they run off gas or a boiler ? Do having silk drapes on the window "block" the heat from expanding? Thank you
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winglady View Post
I understand that propane costs have gone up dramatically in the past 2 years, so the differences may not be as significant as they once were.

Prior to these residences, every place I lived was heated with natural gas (forced air), which was less expensive than the propane or the electric. That's a very common heating method in the larger towns and cities.
This winter, the highest retail price for propane recorded was in Washington State at $4.10 a gallon. I'm not sure if the "electric heat is the most expensive" still holds true.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:12 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
6,926 posts, read 6,905,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movingrightalong... View Post
This winter, the highest retail price for propane recorded was in Washington State at $4.10 a gallon. I'm not sure if the "electric heat is the most expensive" still holds true.
$4.10/gallon ??!!?

Does Washington State get its propane by fracking diamond mines? I just had to pay $2.48/gal for propane here in Colorado, and that was bad enough. To make matters worse, the tank ran out over the weekend and the pilot light on my heater went out. When the guy from the local propane extortion outfit finally moseyed on over on Tuesday, he informed me that I'd have to pay an extra $50 to check for a leak since there was no pilot light on. Then he got out some soap to see if he could find any tell tale bubbles. High tech for sure. I've done the same looking for a leak on an air mattress, only no one ever gave me 50 bucks for my efforts. Needless to say, there was no leak, but since the propane tank on this property is an older one, Propane Extortioners Inc informed me that it has a policy that a new regulator must be installed to the tune of $105.76! They filled my tank only 44% full for $350.00. Total came to $508.51!

I moved here at the beginning of October and the tank was roughly 40% full then. I have never been so frugal with heat as I've been this winter. I keep the heater at the lowest possible setting, dress in layers and use a small ceramic heater to warm my immedient vicinity. It began to get cold here around mid October, so I figure a tank that's 40% full will last me about 3 months if I don't mind being cold all the time. That means just so long as I continue to live like an eskimo, I've got until mid April before the tank runs out again.

I'm spending $117/month propane plus at least $30 extra in electricity for the space heater - that's about $150/mo just to freeze to death and that doesn't cover extra amenities like soap bubbles and a regulator whether I need it not. If I count these things, I'm spending $200/month to inadequately heat a small 800sq ft house.

Pffffffft!
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:03 AM
 
599 posts, read 951,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
$4.10/gallon ??!!?

Does Washington State get its propane by fracking diamond mines? I just had to pay $2.48/gal for propane here in Colorado, and that was bad enough. To make matters worse, the tank ran out over the weekend and the pilot light on my heater went out. When the guy from the local propane extortion outfit finally moseyed on over on Tuesday, he informed me that I'd have to pay an extra $50 to check for a leak since there was no pilot light on. Then he got out some soap to see if he could find any tell tale bubbles. High tech for sure. I've done the same looking for a leak on an air mattress, only no one ever gave me 50 bucks for my efforts. Needless to say, there was no leak, but since the propane tank on this property is an older one, Propane Extortioners Inc informed me that it has a policy that a new regulator must be installed to the tune of $105.76! They filled my tank only 44% full for $350.00. Total came to $508.51!

I moved here at the beginning of October and the tank was roughly 40% full then. I have never been so frugal with heat as I've been this winter. I keep the heater at the lowest possible setting, dress in layers and use a small ceramic heater to warm my immedient vicinity. It began to get cold here around mid October, so I figure a tank that's 40% full will last me about 3 months if I don't mind being cold all the time. That means just so long as I continue to live like an eskimo, I've got until mid April before the tank runs out again.

I'm spending $117/month propane plus at least $30 extra in electricity for the space heater - that's about $150/mo just to freeze to death and that doesn't cover extra amenities like soap bubbles and a regulator whether I need it not. If I count these things, I'm spending $200/month to inadequately heat a small 800sq ft house.

Pffffffft!
Welcome to the world of propane.

A friend of mine once rented a house in the foothills with an agreement that he and the owner would split the propane bill, since the same tank supplied both the house and the owner's workshop on the property. Of course, the owner painted a lot of stuff and the temps had to be pretty high in the workshop (which had no insulation), and the first cold month he was handed a bill for $500 for his half. That's right, it was $1000 that month to heat the house and workshop to 65F! Needless to say they had a renegotiation, since the propane was a handshake thing. Why the owner didn't spend $200 to insulate the workshop was a mystery.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:22 AM
 
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Depends on what type of electric heater.

We are renting a 70's 1000 sq ft with the old original forced air electric heater. After we signed the lease the electric company wanted a $800 deposit (which as later waived due to good credit) because last winter the electric bills were $450/month! By the way, there is no way to turn heat off to individual rooms as it is gravity feed from the crawl space.

So we turned the heater completely off (this is in Crested Butte at 9000 ft with subzero temps) & heat only with wood. Thank the gods above for the woodstove! Pinon, pine & spruce from down near our cabin in NM & we are set.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,954,699 times
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CO Rambler wrote: and a regulator whether I need it not

BIG bro is takin care of ya, and his pals in the regulator business are laughing all the way to the bank.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:49 AM
 
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Wink Boilers and so forth

Quote:
Originally Posted by blumajic8 View Post
I live in a condo that has not been renovated since the building was built in 1970; 43 years ago . It has baseboard heating . How often do these baseboard heaters have to be updated to put out the appropriate amount of heat to warm a unit 720 ft. How can you tell if they run off gas or a boiler ? Do having silk drapes on the window "block" the heat from expanding? Thank you

Insofar as solar gain, having the drapes open allows the maximum amount. Modern window coatings can be designed to hold in heat; conversely, where desired (such as maybe in Phoenix), to block a good deal of solar radiation. The right window for the environment can make a big difference in comfort and energy costs. Initial cost or that of replacement is not insubstantial.

Baseboard heating can be either electric or hot water. That being the element running through the baseboard, not its source. Electric baseboard heating is expensive except in certain areas where the cost of electricity is quite low.

Baseboard heaters using hot water, being likely more the norm, probably do not require any updating. The design is simple and effective, with a copper pipe of probably 3/4 inch running the length, this pipe as an assembly with many aluminum fins on it towards radiation of heat. There really isn't much to improve on there.

However the same would not apply to the boiler. The source for this hot water could be from a variety of fuels, possibly electricity, but more likely propane or natural gas. Boiler design has improved with time, with modern ones being significantly more energy efficient. Thus if anything was to be updated, one might wish to consider the age and efficiency of their boiler.

This might prove all the more important as, depending, some hot water boilers used for heating are also tasked with hot water for the greater home, such as for bathing. In other applications the two systems are separate, and a separate hot water tank, probably either gas or electric powered, used for the kitchen sink and so forth. Know as well that one cannot just conjoin these two systems if not already so, but equipment specifically matched for the purpose.

A lot can be done to lower energy costs, if the initial upfront construction costs are often more than one would wish.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:02 PM
 
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Utilities used to be relatively inexpensive in Colorado. No more. Propane is not cheap, and likely never will be cheap again. As more and more coal-fired power plants are either shut down or converted to natural gas, electric rates are going to go up substantially, as well. Natural gas is cheap right now in some places, but not in many Colorado locales, due to some of the gas utilities there that negotiated what are now very unfavorable long-term supply contracts back when gas prices were high in around 2008. They just pass those costs onto consumers.

As far as utility costs go, leaving Colorado was the best thing that I ever did. Though I now live in a climate that is considerably more rigorous in winter than where I lived in Colorado, my natural gas bill is about half what it was in Colorado--this in a house only slightly smaller in square footage than the one I had in Colorado (my house is around 1600 sq. ft. of heated area). My current home also has a natural gas cooking stove and clothes dryer--my Colorado house had an electric range and dryer. I use considerably less gas in my current house, but the gas rates per BTU are also much less (my natural gas cost for the coldest month of the year in my new home was under $70). My present electricity cost is about the same as it was in Colorado, but I haven't replaced all my lighting with CFL's or LED lights as of yet in my new home, which I had done in my home in Colorado. So, I figure that cost will be dropping as I move to more energy-efficient lighting and electric appliances.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:26 AM
 
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"Propane Shortage Takes Toll On Rural America" - Propane shortage takes toll on rural America - Video on NBCNews.com

"Propane Shortage Lingers" - Midwest, Northeast brace for snow, frigid air as propane shortage lingers | Fox News

Why does this matter in Colorado? Ask anyone using propane after they get their next bill!
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:27 PM
 
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When it comes to heat, hydronic heat (be it in-floor or baseboard) is the way to go. Hydronic heat is much more efficient and much more comfortable, IMO. If natural gas hydronic heat is an option, go for that.
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