the West is everyone's playground (Telluride, Ouray: budget, work, property)

[hello-world]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/us...hp&oref=slogin

if you can't see the article, the gist is: colorado, utah, etc. are being overrrun - on designated land and off designated land - by ATVs and people otherwise using the mountains and desert as their playground.

edward abbey must be rolling in his grave. what do you think about some of these places being seen by people as "their playground"?

[jazzlover]

I have been using a 4WD for work and pleasure in the Rockies for close to 40 years. I subscribed to the "Tread Lightly" philosophy long before it became popular. The kind of vehicle abuse I see on public lands these days is appalling. First, there are a lot more vehicles--many driven by ignorant suburbanites who don't know the first thing about backcountry etiquette or back road driving in general--along with appalling ignorance of the fragile ecosystems of this region. The ATV problem is especially vexing because these vehicles are CAPABLE of being ridden just about anywhere--including a whole of places that they don't belong.

Another problem with our increasingly urban and "techno" society is that off-road vehicles are often no longer used as mere tools to get into the backcountry, but are increasingly driven in some sort of macho "let's see what I can do" kind of motocross rather than for the purpose of making back country access practical to many people who couldn't get there otherwise. That kind of abuse is just another example of how our urbanized/suburbanized society is completely losing touch with nature.

Yet another big problem on public lands is the lack of sufficient rangers, game wardens, and other back country law enforcement personnel to apprehend and arrest abusers of those public lands. One of my pet peeves about that is that the Forest Service, in particular, sees ever larger amounts of their budgets being devoted to assisting private property owners protect their property against forest fires rather than those funds being available for managing the public lands. If people choose to build on private property in fire prone areas snuggled up to the national forests, then those people should provide for their own fire protection--it shouldn't be the Forest Service's (and US taxpayers) problem to defend private property against forest fires, no matter where those fires might start.

It saddens me to see many roads and trails on the public lands being closed off to vehicles. It often denies people who, because of physical limitations don't have the ability to hike for miles, access to many "semi-wild" areas of the Rocky Mountain West. Unfortunately, given both the mentality and sheer numbers of people driving off-road vehicles, more and more closures are probably going to become necessary. Just another example of how out-of-control growth and growing personal irresponsibility is diminishing both freedoms and a quality of life for residents of this region.

[j1n]

In Sept '06, my best friend and I did a car camping trip. We drove from Park City, UT down to Moab and camped in the La Sals. Then we headed over to the San Juans of CO and camped all around Telluride, Ouray, Silverton, etc. We drove high and far through an early snow out onto some remote and beautiful mountain passes and secluded alpine lake areas. We never stayed once in an "established" campground but always went for the dispersed camping in the backcountry. At an alarming majority of our campsites, we rebuilt and upgraded existing fire rings (at least once, there was a virtual blanket of cigarette butts around the fire ring). We ended up bagging and packing out lots of extra garbage, cans, bottles, tin can tops, etc. At one beautiful, remote, alpine lake site near Telluride, we noticed something at a neighboring site and went over to see what it was. We found:
- one brand new cardboard tent box
- one more brand new cardboard tent box
- one brand new camp stove box
- one brand new air mattress box
- one brand new cardboard sleeping bag box
- another brand new cardboard sleeping bag box
- one 12-pack Coke box with five unopened cans still inside
- one unopened bag of marshmellows
- various other smaller items
And there was so much, and it was so wet, dirty and voluminous, we could not pack it all out of that location.
At another spot way out in the backcountry, we found 2 abandoned tents, flashlight, sleeping bag, etc.

It is sad that people just insist on being tourists, and forget how to be human beings who actually care just a little bit...people who might want their children and grandchildren to have the opportunity to view the same unspoiled vistas that so moved them at some point.
I hate to see access closed, because I know how I respond to the privelege it offers. But the fact of the matter is that some people ruin everything for others. The American West is a beautiful place to be cherished, not abused. Definitely tread lightly.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

I have been using a 4WD for work and pleasure in the Rockies for close to 40 years. I subscribed to the "Tread Lightly" philosophy long before it became popular. The kind of vehicle abuse I see on public lands these days is appalling. First, there are a lot more vehicles--many driven by ignorant suburbanites who don't know the first thing about backcountry etiquette or back road driving in general--along with appalling ignorance of the fragile ecosystems of this region. The ATV problem is especially vexing because these vehicles are CAPABLE of being ridden just about anywhere--including a whole of places that they don't belong.

Another problem with our increasingly urban and "techno" society is that off-road vehicles are often no longer used as mere tools to get into the backcountry, but are increasingly driven in some sort of macho "let's see what I can do" kind of motocross rather than for the purpose of making back country access practical to many people who couldn't get there otherwise. That kind of abuse is just another example of how our urbanized/suburbanized society is completely losing touch with nature.

Yet another big problem on public lands is the lack of sufficient rangers, game wardens, and other back country law enforcement personnel to apprehend and arrest abusers of those public lands. One of my pet peeves about that is that the Forest Service, in particular, sees ever larger amounts of their budgets being devoted to assisting private property owners protect their property against forest fires rather than those funds being available for managing the public lands. If people choose to build on private property in fire prone areas snuggled up to the national forests, then those people should provide for their own fire protection--it shouldn't be the Forest Service's (and US taxpayers) problem to defend private property against forest fires, no matter where those fires might start.

It saddens me to see many roads and trails on the public lands being closed off to vehicles. It often denies people who, because of physical limitations don't have the ability to hike for miles, access to many "semi-wild" areas of the Rocky Mountain West. Unfortunately, given both the mentality and sheer numbers of people driving off-road vehicles, more and more closures are probably going to become necessary. Just another example of how out-of-control growth and growing personal irresponsibility is diminishing both freedoms and a quality of life for residents of this region.

i have to admit, the word "jazzlover" popped into my head when i saw that article, and somehow i thought it might get a response. i also admit you're one of the more edward abbey figures on this thing in my view. are you...edward abbey's ghost? it's good to have your voice here, in my humble opinion. ed... (?)

[brightdoglover]

I doubt Jazzlover would have hurled beer cans all over the landscape as a act of personal freedom. There was plenty of macho crapola in Abbey's writings, both fiction (especially) and other.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by brightdoglover

I doubt Jazzlover would have hurled beer cans all over the landscape as a act of personal freedom. There was plenty of macho crapola in Abbey's writings, both fiction (especially) and other.

i agree with you.

[brightdoglover]

Edward Abbey lost me at the beginning of "Monkey Wrench Gang" where the hero stands over a canyon, urinates down the canyon wall, and stands there in triumph, "forgetting" to zip up and put his business back.
The women were completel stereotypes, too.
Give me "Sand County Almanac" any day.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by brightdoglover

Edward Abbey lost me at the beginning of "Monkey Wrench Gang" where the hero stands over a canyon, urinates down the canyon wall, and stands there in triumph, "forgetting" to zip up and put his business back.
The women were completel stereotypes, too.
Give me "Sand County Almanac" any day.

yeah, i can see some of what you mention here in some of what i've read of his and read about him. no offense to jazzlover, whom i simply see as a champion of some similar causes with a writing style that can sound a bit "abbey" (and i consider edward abbey a rather effective writer, whether or not it's agreeable stuff). no less, he was a champion of some things that might irk him to see these days, including a bit of what's covered in that article.

[jazzlover]

Abbey was an interesting writer. I did not agree with his advocacy of "eco-terrorism" that he hatched in the "Monkey Wrench Gang," though some of the characters in that book were quite amusing. I think it interesting that many of the "eco-terrorist" movement (including some members of EarthFirst!) have renounced Abbey because they consider him not radical enough--he still used motor vehicles, etc. that the "purists" today totally want to eschew. I recommend that anyone with any interest in the Rocky Mountain region or the Desert Southwest read "Desert Solitaire" or the "Monkey Wrench Gang," though. Those two books both have outstanding descriptions of the natural character of the region that are hard to beat. For that, I also like to read some of Tony Hillerman's mysteries that are set in the Southwest, especially on the Navajo Reservation. If you have ever spent any time on "the res," those descriptions are a pretty good way to recall it.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Abbey was an interesting writer. I did not agree with his advocacy of "eco-terrorism" that he hatched in the "Monkey Wrench Gang," though some of the characters in that book were quite amusing. I think it interesting that many of the "eco-terrorist" movement (including some members of EarthFirst!) have renounced Abbey because they consider him not radical enough--he still used motor vehicles, etc. that the "purists" today totally want to eschew. I recommend that anyone with any interest in the Rocky Mountain region or the Desert Southwest read "Desert Solitaire" or the "Monkey Wrench Gang," though. Those two books both have outstanding descriptions of the natural character of the region that are hard to beat. For that, I also like to read some of Tony Hillerman's mysteries that are set in the Southwest, especially on the Navajo Reservation. If you have ever spent any time on "the res," those descriptions are a pretty good way to recall it.

part of me wonders whether the beauty of "desert solitaire", for example, might actually have inspired plenty of what it criticized. either way, i second your thoughts here.