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Old 11-22-2014, 08:51 PM
 
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Hello Friends,

My family desires to live a subsistence lifestyle- off the grid. In our research we find ourselves drawn to the San Luis Valley, in part because of the lack of building restrictions, in part because of low property taxes and cheap land, in part because of the climate. I am originally from Colorado miss the desert and mountains.

We have done a great deal of research and realize that life in the San Luis Valley will not be without it's challenges.

It is our plan to list our house priced to sell in the spring and we hope to relocate summer / fall 2015.

~Patterwig
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:43 PM
 
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Here are some existing threads covering what it is you seek.

homesteading the San Luis valley, co

Current residents of the San Luis Valley...Can I ask you a few things?

Land in San Luis Valley

san luis valley just south of the dunes


It is a rigorous climate there, bitter cold in winter, lots of wind. Water is a key issue, getting rights to water is a serious legal matter and drilling a well can be very costly or one has water trucked in. Lots of stuff to consider so we urge you to read the main threads on the SLV.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:32 AM
 
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Hello Mike,

Thanks so much for the links - I found helpful info!

We're from rural WI, last year we had 53 days below zero - several days -30(or colder) for the low and -12 for the high, not to mention the several feet of snow we get. We are acclimated to spending our summers 'storing our nuts away' for harsh winters and have lived many years in a remote area (example, 10 miles to the closest gas station, ect). Water is a greater concern to us.

We're looking at this property online (needs fixing up):
http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...79-70306?row=1
On Cty J and Vallejo Road, it's about a mile and a half from the Rio Grande. It needs a well and cistern.

Does anyone have insight on this property that they could send me in a PM?

What the fees are (approx) for water rights for use inside of the house?
How difficult is it to get a permit for a well?
Anyone have any insight on this area, what the community is like?

Thanks kindly for any info you can pass on!
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:10 AM
 
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That particular locale is out in the middle of the sagebrush desert west of San Luis. No trees around at all, extremely desolate. It is in one of the "rook the outsiders" subdivisions that were developed (and other than a crappy gravel road, that is the extent of the "development") years ago. The fact that most of the lots are still vacant many years later should tell you something.

Check with the State Engineer's office on well permitting. Drilling a well can be costly. Of course, septic will be required, as well. I hope that you do realize that Costilla County is one of the poorest counties in the United States. Jobs are practically non-existent and lengthy drives are a necessity for just about everything, even pretty basic stuff. Snow is not so much a problem as the bitter cold in the winter. Much of the SLV may not have snowcover on the valley floor during many winters, which means the cold can drive frost down in the ground many feet.

I know the SLV quite well, I've been in the valley on a very regular basis for decades--was just there last week, in fact. The predominant native Hispanic culture can require quite an adjustment for Anglos who are not familiar with it, too. If anything, many of the Hispanics in the SLV have higher moral character than many Anglos, but they often will take a long time to accept an outsider. If you have any school-age kids, that can be a difficult adjustment for them. In the southern third of the SLV, especially Costilla and southern Conejos Counties, Anglos are the minority population. Also, in much of the SLV, the Anglo population is heavily LDS, so the common religions in that area are Catholic among the Hispanics and Mormon among the Anglos. Interestingly, there is also a growing Amish population in Conejos County. Seeing the Amish horse and buggies is getting more common there. The ethnic/religion population demographic is much different than in most of Colorado, particularly if compared with the Front Range metro areas. In that regard, the SLV has much more in common with northern New Mexico.
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Old 11-23-2014, 02:18 PM
 
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OP, you need to investigate the water permit availability before proceeding any further.

While you may be able to obtain a "domestic use" permit, it may be limited strictly to inside the house for normal domestic use only ... to the extent that no hydrant or hose bib may be located on the outside of the house for any exterior use.

It's a world apart here from the riparian climate zone that you are coming from. Water law is a big deal and the water resources statewide are under a lot of scrutiny with Colorado's expanding population and obligations per Federal compacts as a headwaters state to deliver water to downstream states. The bottom line is that if you are successful in obtaining a well permit and a producing well, there will be many people looking over your shoulder to be sure that you do not misuse the water in any way beyond your permitted amount or application.

Also consider that the growing season at altitude is entirely different than that of low elevation riparian WI. Growing enough produce for a subsistence existence here may prove to be very difficult. The winds here will also play into why there is so little natural vegetation in the area; I wouldn't attempt to grow a variety garden in this area without a tunnel greenhouse structure and careful control of moisture applied to the plants via a drip-tape or subsurface system on a timer with zones for the various plant requirements.

Last edited by sunsprit; 11-23-2014 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:08 PM
 
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Private Wells for Home Use is a good place to start on the issue of water wells in Colorado.
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:51 AM
 
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We are not planning on gardening in the traditional 'micro farming' sense - which needs a great deal of water
we are planning on producing fish and veggies inside the home with aquaponics, which is highly efficient in water use - having chickens and eventually pygmy goats for milk.

All of the info you have passed on is most helpful. We are not impulsive, we are hesitantly planning on moving forward. Ultimately, we won't purchase any property until view it in person.

We do realize the there is very different, It will feel a little like 'living on Mars.'
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patterwig View Post
We are not planning on gardening in the traditional 'micro farming' sense - which needs a great deal of water
we are planning on producing fish and veggies inside the home with aquaponics, which is highly efficient in water use -

having more than a passing familiarity with several Colorado aquaponics greenhouse operations and a hydroponics based commercial tomato operation ... I'm impressed with how much energy they use. I'll infer that your "off the grid" living will be requiring substantial on-site power generation. Six months of winter clime at altitude could be a challenging scenario for that purpose even with a combination of wind and solar generation.

having chickens and eventually pygmy goats for milk.

Again, be sure that you have a water permitted use for "livestock" operations. Chicken and pygmy goats do require water use outside the house for a non-domestic purpose, AFAIK ... at least our commercial poultry, goat, and sheep operations do. If your permit isn't for such purposes, don't think that you'll escape notice due to your remote location.

You're heading to an area where all of your neighbors ... especially the ones with appropriate water right permits ... will know what you're doing with water and it's a big enough issue that few, if any, will simply "wink" at your use. This is a lot of open country and what you do is readily apparent to everybody, along with a local gossip telephone which runs full time.

As well, you'll need to be very aggressive re predator protection for any livestock in this area.


All of the info you have passed on is most helpful. We are not impulsive, we are hesitantly planning on moving forward. Ultimately, we won't purchase any property until view it in person.

You'll need two trips to be reasonably informed. One during the summer months, and one during the depths of winter. I'd suggest a late January or February time frame and plan on spending several days at the property site to see at least one frontal passage through the area.

We do realize the there is very different, It will feel a little like 'living on Mars.'
Good luck with your venture. In all candor, I can think of many areas of the USA that would be more "user-friendly" for what you propose to do.
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:18 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,405,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patterwig View Post
We are not planning on gardening in the traditional 'micro farming' sense - which needs a great deal of water
we are planning on producing fish and veggies inside the home with aquaponics, which is highly efficient in water use - having chickens and eventually pygmy goats for milk.

All of the info you have passed on is most helpful. We are not impulsive, we are hesitantly planning on moving forward. Ultimately, we won't purchase any property until view it in person.

We do realize the there is very different, It will feel a little like 'living on Mars.'
Your aquaponics will likely not be considered "domestic" water use under Colorado water law, so using domestic well water for that probably won't fly. And, in the SLV, chickens and goats will have to be nearly 100% supplemental fed year round--sustainable grazing rates on that land is measured in acres per animal unit, typically around 40 acres to 80 acres per animal unit. A goat would count as about 1/2 animal unit. The whole deal is pretty much a "no-go" on a dry SLV parcel. You do realize that Manassa, just a few miles west of that parcel, is the driest co-op weather reporting station in Colorado, with just over 7" of ANNUAL precipitation?
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:50 AM
 
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Every time someone comes to these forums wanting to garden or hobby-farm in COLO it is my practice to urge them to see the Shenandoah Valley of VA. The place is like the garden of eden compared to this climate; emerald green in the spring and most of the year, one of the most abundant places there is. Lots of rain, good land, mountains, good people and virtually unlimited opportunity for off-grid living, earth berm homes, you name it, and all without the rigors found here for such family enterprises. Some damned smart farmers down there too, like Joel Salatin of PolyFace Farm..... I highly recommend reading Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan for key insights on how it all works.
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