Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-06-2014, 02:33 PM
 
5,089 posts, read 15,356,046 times
Reputation: 7017

Advertisements

I am very much impressed and satisfied that Denver and the Front Range has moved to this direction. Do not assume that, with my previous posts, I am dissatisfied with this area--I think it is grand!

I was only making a point, in my previous post, that there are other places in the US to live for quality of life for those who cannot compete economically and those without skills and education that can bring them a higher wage.

So therefore I will take this discussion on the other hand, playing the devil's advocate, so to speak:

There are many advantages for Colorado and especially Denver becoming a destination city on the list of the best cities to live. In attracting the best and brightest, we are also attracting their progressive ideas and their abilities that make this area a better place.

With the influx of new ideas and people, we have been able to move forward into expansion of public transit which is really now the envy of the nation. An extensive public transit is an advantage for everyone even if you do not drive.

Many neighborhoods of Denver would never have been redeveloped without this infusion of new talent and the population willing to move to and invest in older and deteriorating areas of Denver. With the improvement of Denver, that has spilled over into the near older suburbs which would have certainly decayed if the bordering city neighborhoods did not improve. We have seen that happen in eastern cities which are falling into disrepair, taking the contiguous suburbs into decay.

We see new shopping venues redeveloped like Belmar, Streets of Southglenn. We now have rejuvenated Denver neighborhoods of Berkeley, Highlands, South Pearl and the changes evident on South Broadway. We certainly should point out the changes in the Platte River from dark decay of the past to a modern urban area. Downtown Denver has become a stunning and alluring city center.

We are moving to a world class city that does attract new businesses which create new jobs. Keep in mind, it is not only individuals who seek to be in fashionable cities but also businesses seek a upscale address in a perceived progressive city. Businesses must compete for clients and these clients do often view the location of the business as a perception of being better--right or wrong, that is the nature of business because business sales are driven much by perceptions. Also, the best personnel of talent that these businesses needs to acquire are attracted to businesses located these progressive fashionable cities. Even though I decried the egos of those who need to be play the part of conspicuous consumption, in my previous posts, these people also bring immense talent with their egos--we do need them and must accept and cater to their eccentricities for the good they bring.

We have expanded parks, trails and open space well beyond what was planned decades ago with the influx of creative people and the money they bring.

If you can afford this place and or had to advantages of arriving here early to establish yourself or have learned to live with less, Denver and The Front Range is a wonderful place to live.

Livecontent

Last edited by livecontent; 12-06-2014 at 02:43 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-06-2014, 07:01 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,387,272 times
Reputation: 9305
I disagree with livecontent about Denver metro becoming any kind of "world class" city. In many ways, it is less "world class" than it was a few decades ago. Yeah, it has major league sports teams, yuppie bars, a few new light rail commuter lines (but only a small fraction of mass transit of what it had in 1920, when the metro area was 1/4 of its current population) and a continuing influx of people, but in many other ways--important ways--it has gone downhill. No one want to admit that the Front Range economy has become hugely unbalanced--way over-reliant on high-tech and government spending. Basic industry--of which the Front Range used to have quite bit for a relatively isolated location far from other population centers--has been in decline for several decades, and so have the relatively high-wage jobs that were associated with it. Colorado's fiscal situation in public finance has also deteriorated greatly in the last 20 years. Colorado used to have a very favorable business climate, but high effective property tax rates on commercial and industrial property--real and personal--have tainted that. Colorado's public infrastructure--everything from education to highways--has not come close to keeping up with population growth and is now so far behind that it likely will never catch up. Colorado's natural environment--its trump card--has also suffered greatly from the growth, especially in and around the Front Range metro areas. Anyone who claims that it hasn't deteriorated has not lived in the area long enough to know how it used to be.

The near total lack of vision for protecting the things that made Colorado attractive is appalling. Colorado should have learned from California's mistakes. Instead, it is repeating them, often even more egregiously. If anybody wants to know what Colorado will be in 10-20 years, they only need to look at the absolute mess that metropolitan California is now. There is no such thing as "smart growth" in Colorado--just stupid growth and REALLY stupid growth, and way more of the latter than the former.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2014, 07:06 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
6,926 posts, read 6,897,218 times
Reputation: 16507
^^^

Sure, there's always two sides to a coin. I haven't been out to the Front Range for a while, but from what I understand, Denver's new public transit system is a giant step forward. Plus Denver has all sorts of cool things - the symphony, the Fine Arts Museum, a very good public library system, etc. But any city the size of Denver is going to have similar amenities. Some places are going to have a lower cost of living and some places won't. I don't see Denver as being especially iconic of Colorado anymore, except for the fact that you need to put "CO" after the name "Denver" when you're writing down your address. If you want to trade Rochester, New York for Denver, Colorado be my guest. But really, why go to all that trouble? I don't see it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2014, 08:04 PM
 
5,089 posts, read 15,356,046 times
Reputation: 7017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
^^^

Sure, there's always two sides to a coin. I haven't been out to the Front Range for a while, but from what I understand, Denver's new public transit system is a giant step forward. Plus Denver has all sorts of cool things - the symphony, the Fine Arts Museum, a very good public library system, etc. But any city the size of Denver is going to have similar amenities. Some places are going to have a lower cost of living and some places won't. I don't see Denver as being especially iconic of Colorado anymore, except for the fact that you need to put "CO" after the name "Denver" when you're writing down your address. If you want to trade Rochester, New York for Denver, Colorado be my guest. But really, why go to all that trouble? I don't see it.
Well, since I grew up in Western New York, Rochester is certainly not in the same league--it is very small deteriorating city.

Yes, I agree Denver is no longer the iconic city of the West, if there really was any such idea in the changing west of the popular imagination. No city today lives in isolation from others in sole unique characteristics with the influence of the media and quick transportation.

It is only some myopic near sighted natives of each area that whines, complains and moans about changes but they are trying to catch a moving cloud. I heard the same whines when I was young about what was changing at that time. These same cry babies existed in every period of time, in every era, in every area, bemoaning that which they cannot accept--too bad!

Denver is now in the league of Austin, Portland, Seattle, Winston-Salem, Dallas/Ft. Worth etc. It is seen as a progressive new redeveloped city that is attractive with the amenities that are consider valuable to the many who move to these cities. It is the way it is--there is nothing you can do!

Livecontent
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2014, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,943,393 times
Reputation: 9584
Livecontent wrote: It is only some myopic near sighted natives of each area that whines, complains and moans about changes but they are trying to catch a moving cloud. I heard the same whines when I was young about what was changing at that time. These same cry babies existed in every period of time, in every era, in every area, bemoaning that which they cannot accept--too bad!''

You left out b*tches, gripes, and laments.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2014, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
8,595 posts, read 14,778,113 times
Reputation: 15346
Since we're having the argument, the COL is pretty low in Waco, Texas, compared to the Front Range, too, but you have to wake up every morning knowing you're living in the sweaty taint of America. Waco's cheap...and it SUCKS.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2014, 08:56 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,387,272 times
Reputation: 9305
Not all change is positive and not all change is progress. Furthermore, I consider no city "great" when it tramples and destroys the natural heritage upon which it lies.

Quote:
“Here is your country. Cherish these natural wonders, cherish the natural resources, cherish the history and romance as a sacred heritage, for your children and your children's children. Do not let selfish men or greedy interests skin your country of its beauty, its riches or its romance.”

Theodore Roosevelt
Quote:
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress."

Millard Fillmore

Quote:
"We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive."

C. S. Lewis
Quote:
"Unless we practice conservation, those who come after us will have to pay the price of misery, degradation, and failure for the progress and prosperity of our day."

Gifford Pinchot
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2014, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,943,393 times
Reputation: 9584
bluescreen73 wrote: Since we're having the argument, the COL is pretty low in Waco, Texas, compared to the Front Range, too, but you have to wake up every morning knowing you're living in the sweaty taint of America. Waco's cheap...and it SUCKS.

That's the problem with many of the truly affordable locations.....then you're stuck living there!



Hey jazz.....all good quotes in #17 above
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 12:05 AM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
6,926 posts, read 6,897,218 times
Reputation: 16507
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post

It is only some myopic near sighted natives of each area that whines, complains and moans about changes but they are trying to catch a moving cloud. I heard the same whines when I was young about what was changing at that time. These same cry babies existed in every period of time, in every era, in every area, bemoaning that which they cannot accept--too bad!

Denver is now in the league of Austin, Portland, Seattle, Winston-Salem, Dallas/Ft. Worth etc. It is seen as a progressive new redeveloped city that is attractive with the amenities that are consider valuable to the many who move to these cities. It is the way it is--there is nothing you can do!

Livecontent
Well, if you want to call me a "myopic near sighted native" who "whines, complains and moans about changes" feel free. I've been called all sorts of things by complete strangers on the Internet, and I'm not interested in starting up some flame war that just gets this thread locked. So have at it, I don't care.

However, if someone starts one of these "where to move in Colorado" threads which must number in the thousands by now, I'll give them my opinion. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question. If I were thinking about moving to another state, I'd be interested in the different perspectives of different people. There's plenty of people on here who are PR salesmen for this state. It never hurts a soup to add a little salt. If I'm too whiney for you, CD has a very convenient "ignore" setting. I suggest you use it, and we'll all be happier.

And frankly, I don't want to "do" anything about Denver. Every person in the US can move there for all I care. I've got enough problems without attempting to do something about a city I have no interest in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 01:12 PM
 
5,089 posts, read 15,356,046 times
Reputation: 7017
I have no problem with your complaining with your dissatisfaction; your opinions are certainly welcomed and you made some very good observations.

I am just saying that it is more than common to see and hear some natives complain about changes everywhere. They tend to think they represent the majority--they only represent themselves and few who really have problems with change. Most natives and long term residents do easily accept and appreciate the changes and the progress that has occurred in Denver. In addition, many more know that these changes have benefits and advantages that make living here much better. Obviously some changes will always come with some problems but we know that these problems are not so much to denigrate the progress of change.

Of course, you can decide that you do not like what you see. You left the area which is a good choice for you. Since I have been here 36 years, I consider myself a long term resident and even know more about the area than many so called native born. There is some aspect of changes in these times for this area that I do not like but there is nothing I can do but accept it or leave. I have decided that the advantages of this area is much better than others.

I grew up partially near Buffalo, NY. If you want to see the opposite of when a city becomes when it does not attract the best and the brightest then look at Buffalo. It is in severe decay with population lost; very high and still rising taxes with less tax payers and a decaying infrastructure. I see Denver from that prospective so that makes me very satisfied where I live.

When I compared Denver with Buffalo when I moved here, I had seen that the long term residents and natives that existed before me in this area created a much better environment then those denizens in Buffalo--so I appreciate those who create it as better.

Livecontent

Last edited by livecontent; 12-07-2014 at 01:27 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top