Real Estate Market / Inflation / Recession / Depression (Denver: mortgage, credit, student loan)

[Bob from down south]

Originally Posted by suzco

We also have to discard the labels of republicans and democrats, conservatives and liberals, religionists and heathens, christians and others, and stop demonizing each other. This isn't the fault of liberals or socialists, or commies or crazies. Our polarized political system that pits you against me/ us against them is destroying our country. Greedy, corrupt business practices supported by politicians are not our salvation.

I tend to agree. Especially since some of the labels don't mean what they used to any more. With G W Bush and Henry Paulson now placing our government in the role of a socialist market manipulator, the whole idea of a free enterprise, free market economy no longer has a connection with this republican organized crime ring that will misuse maybe a million times a million tax dollars to absolve the greediest of the greedy Wall Street fraudsters from the consequences of their actions.

As NewAgeRedneck says, we need Robin Hood right now. I know that taxing the uber-wealthy can't solve the problem...the middle class will bear the brunt of this. But the uber-wealthy need to pay a disproportionately high price since they are the disproportionate benefactors of this publicly funded bailout.

People who work harder and produce more should be rewarded...to a point. Nobody is worth significantly north of $250,000 a year. And few ever get to those sorts of incomes. I would propose a tax increase that steeply raises the marginal tax rates to 90% above that income level. I would also like to see some hard clawback provisons in this stinking rotten bailout plan that would strangle off pay and bonuses for executives at any institution that benefits from the bailout.

What I really want to see is heads on pikes. Those of governmental "leaders" that permitted, by failure to legislate and/or regulate, this fraud to occur. And those of corporate executives who have slopped at the troughs of fraud and deceit for decades, bringing home handsome sums for their crimes.

Tar, feathers, and pitchforks would be a good first step. Or, as they used to say in Old Colorado, "...somebody go git a rope."

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by suzco

Greedy, corrupt business practices supported by politicians are not our salvation.

Greedy, corrupt business practices supported by bought-and-paid for greedy, corrupt politicians...

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by Bob from down south

I.
What I really want to see is heads on pikes. Those of governmental "leaders" that permitted, by failure to legislate and/or regulate, this fraud to occur. And those of corporate executives who have slopped at the troughs of fraud and deceit for decades, bringing home handsome sums for their crimes.

Tar, feathers, and pitchforks would be a good first step. Or, as they used to say in Old Colorado, "...somebody go git a rope."

Heads on pikes might be a bit extreme, though admittedly tempting. Passports need to be seized, assets frozen, rigorous investigations made, fraud and criminal conspiracy indictments handed down. These criminals need to spend enough years in jail that they will be too old to enjoy their money (undoubtedly already hidden away in foreign accounts) when they finally get out. They didn't commit mere crimes, they destroyed the economy of a great nation and brought on what may be a worldwide Greater Depression.

OK, having given more thought, I'll consider pikes.

[Bob from down south]

Great summary of the case against the bailout

Why You Should Hate the Treasury Bailout Proposal

This is an attempt at dictatorial control of our economy and markets. Read how a Coup D'Etats is officially worded:

"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

Amazing stuff. Paulson, an ex-executive at Goldman Sachs, wants unlimited, unchallenged authority to pay above-market prices for crap securities to his buddies on Wall Street.

If your Rep and Senators don't hear from you in the next day or two, he'll get it, too.

[suzco]

Originally Posted by Bob from down south

Great summary of the case against the bailout

Why You Should Hate the Treasury Bailout Proposal

This is an attempt at dictatorial control of our economy and markets. Read how a Coup D'Etats is officially worded:

"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

Amazing stuff. Paulson, an ex-executive at Goldman Sachs, wants unlimited, unchallenged authority to pay above-market prices for crap securities to his buddies on Wall Street.

If your Rep and Senators don't hear from you in the next day or two, he'll get it, too.

Another good article with simple,understandable explanations about this issue is Treasury Seeks Asset-Buying Power Unchecked by Courts (Update2)

. . .``He's asking for a huge amount of power,'' said Nouriel Roubini, an economist at New York University. ``He's saying, `Trust me, I'm going to do it right if you give me absolute control.' This is not a monarchy.''
As congressional aides and officials scrutinized the proposal, the Treasury late yesterday clarified the types of assets it would purchase. Paulson would have authority to buy home loans, mortgage-backed securities, commercial mortgage- related assets and, after consultation with the Federal Reserve chairman, ``other assets, as deemed necessary to effectively stabilize financial markets,'' the Treasury said in a statement.
The Treasury would also have discretion, after discussions with the Fed, to make non-U.S. financial institutions eligible under the program. . .

He can do what he wants, and ultimately, make us underwrite the whole world's economy. Oh yeah, for some decisions he's got to talk it over with his friends first.

[jazzlover]

Reminds me of another guy who told his supporters essentially, "Give me broad authority, and I will fix the economy, get you working again, and make our country great." His name was Adolf Hitler, and he created a nationalist/socialist state in which the government favored its private sector allies and guaranteed their survival--companies that are still around today: Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Bayer, etc. Along the way, though, there were those little "bumps in the road" like the Holocaust, the Third Reich, and World War II. I can't decide which I despise more--big corporations or big government. We've got both now--and they are sleeping together. And both Presidential candidates, in their own ways, are in bed with them. God help us.

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Reminds me of another guy who told his supporters essentially, "Give me broad authority, and I will fix the economy, get you working again, and make our country great." His name was Adolf Hitler.

He delivered on all of those promises in a very short time. It was a genuine economic miracle. Before Hitler Germany was a basket case in the Weimar period and it took a wheelbarrow full of million mark notes to pay for a dinner out. Under Hitler, Germany became a world economic, political and military superpower. He did put everyone to work, built the autobahn system, restored the military to the most powerful in the world, and made Germany, once again, a respected, though feared, nation with far reaching international influence. The German Army was eight million strong at the beginning of WW2. He accomplished all this in a little over six years. Little wonder the German people blindly believed in him and followed him down the road to hell and utter destruction.

[suzco]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

He delivered on all of those promises in a very short time. It was a genuine economic miracle. Before Hitler Germany was a basket case in the Weimar period and it took a wheelbarrow full of million mark notes to pay for a dinner out. Under Hitler, Germany became a world economic, political and military superpower. He did put everyone to work, built the autobahn system, restored the military to the most powerful in the world, and made Germany, once again, a respected, though feared, nation with far reaching international influence. The German Army was eight million strong at the beginning of WW2. He accomplished all this in a little over six years. Little wonder the German people blindly believed in him and followed him down the road to hell and utter destruction.

Glad to see that mainstream conservative/republicans are finally starting to accept that the alliance of neo-conservatives, religious zealots, radical right, corporations and politicians is not likely to bring heaven on earth to our country.

Edit to add: Also hasn't done much for our real estate market or the economy.

[CosmicWizard]

I think we-the-taxpayers would get more bang for the buck if they took the $700,000,000,000 ( I'm getting carpal tunnel from typing all those zeros! ) and divvied it up among the taxpayers. Using round numbers; $700,000,000,000 / 350,000,000 would provide approximately $2000 for every citizen. At least we'd get SOMETHING out of it!

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by NewAgeRedneck

At least we'd get SOMETHING out of it!

Oh,we're getting something out of it but it doesn't come with a kiss...