Real Estate Market / Inflation / Recession / Depression (loan, work, homes)

[Mike from back east]

Bright side of coin: Less driving = less wear and tear on roads and bridges.

[CosmicWizard]

I'm glad you brought that up Mike. Not too long ago, some folks were moaning and complaining about too much traffic and too many roads being built. Now that traffic is lighter and road building projects have been halted, those folks have something new to b*tch and gripe about.

[Bob from down south]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Bright side of coin: Less driving = less wear and tear on roads and bridges.

Unfortunately, the majority of wear and tear is weather and corrosion related, especially in a place with as much thermal cycling as Colorado. One look at an asphalt runway/ramp at a closed airfield well illustrates that nonuse of a paved surface does not preserve it.

I'm happy if we cool down the rate of sprawl, but what we've already built is unsustainable in the long term. But we're going to be taxed every which way from Sunday to TRY to sustain it, mark my words. Rather than prioritizing, and recognizing that maybe battered prairie dog shelters and Toad Sloth Habitat projects maybe aren't a "necessity," the pols are instead going to come at us for more and more or our income. In fact they're already doing that...some major tax initiatives are on the ballot right now. D-20 in Colorado Springs, one of the best funded school districts in the state, is trying to grab even more with an amendment that would forever divert any refunds due back to taxpayers to the district instead.

Hey NewAgeRedneck, what's up with the new handle?

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

I'm glad you brought that up Mike. Not too long ago, some folks were moaning and complaining about too much traffic and too many roads being built. Now that traffic is lighter and road building projects have been halted, those folks have something new to b*tch and gripe about.

You don't hear me complaining about cancellation of road-building projects and canceling of other BS projects in Colorado. If we could kick the land developers and highway lobby out of Colorado for good, this state might have a chance to get its economic and environmental house in order, and actually work toward being a sustainable place. If the current economic mess would actually get that done, then at least one good thing could come out of it. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

You don't hear me complaining about cancellation of road-building projects and canceling of other BS projects in Colorado. If we could kick the land developers and highway lobby out of Colorado for good, this state might have a chance to get its economic and environmental house in order, and actually work toward being a sustainable place. If the current economic mess would actually get that done, then at least one good thing could come out of it. I'm not holding my breath, though.

I'm largely in agreement, but I've yet to see any state or locality that can control growth and drive an agenda or vision for a sensible future. Those of us who understand transport and commuting know the best schemes are rail lines and dense housing, not highways and suburbs. There seems little or no courage in our elected leaders, at all levels, at least in THIS country. It's going to take a steady diet of $200/bbl oil to start moving people to the city.

Speaking of $200/bbl oil, there is going to be a lecture by Stephen Leeb on Nov 17 in Littleton/Centennial. Title of his talk is "Surviving and Thriving With $200 Oil." I'll be there. Leeb is author of "The Oil Factor" which correctly called the run-up in oil and commodity prices.

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I'll be there. Leeb is author of "The Oil Factor" which correctly called the run-up in oil and commodity prices.

PLS take notes for the rest of us!

[sterlinggirl]

Speaking of Argentina nationalizing private pensions and capital flight.....

Did anybody else hear the reports on Fox News that Congress is considering doing away with 401Ks and forcing people into TIPS with a 5% payroll deduction?

[POhdNcrzy]

Farmgirl, do you mean those "inflation-protected Treasury securities"? (TIPS?) No, I didn't hear about that yet.

I think if the powers that be try to raise taxes they are really going to radicalize and politically-mobilize the population. Aren't most working people feeling like taxes are already about at the maximum amount that they can emotionally and financially manage? The gubmintnicks are clearly gonna have to try to raise taxes somehow, but they better try a sales tax or something I guess, unless they want a few pitchforks right up their behinds, it seems to me.

Now for those who follow the colorfully mad rantings of Jim Kunstler and know about energy markets 'n stuff, I've been thinking. I don't think "Main Street" has been all that affected by the financial mega-crisis yet. Stocks and retirement accounts are hurting bad, but that's just "paper money stowed away", although consumer spending is taking a hard hit as a result. What has really hit Main Street started in 2003, and that has been the steep rise in gas prices. Dontcha think part of what caused the foreclosure crisis has been gas prices? This is a daily big expense for Americans that in the last few years has gone WAY up in price. I think with hindsight, economists will perhaps blame gas prices north of 2$/gal. for getting the foreclosure ball rolling. Americans have been taking financial blows for the past few years and finally by late 2007 they were KO'd and bleeding on the canvas. Wasn't it very foolish for the Bush administration and Congress to allow gas prices to skyrocket for so long like that? Congress and Bush should have immediately cut out ALL the gas taxes or tried something else to cap the cost of gas and diesel fuel.

I will go so far as to say, until something comes along to replace the modern automobile and/or gas goes back below $2/gal., the economy in the US is gonna be in real bad shape.

Well, watcha guys think of that?

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy

Wasn't it very foolish for the Bush administration and Congress to allow gas prices to skyrocket for so long like that? Congress and Bush should have immediately cut out ALL the gas taxes or tried something else to cap the cost of gas and diesel fuel.

I will go so far as to say, until something comes along to replace the modern automobile and/or gas goes back below $2/gal., the economy in the US is gonna be in real bad shape.

Trying to control the price of a depleting commodity only leads to shortages--since the end consumer does not get a "price signal" to curb his or her consumption. We now (once again) have dramatic proof that high prices will cause demand destruction in the gasoline markets and lead to lower consumption. Unfortunately, if prices go down and stay there for awhile, Americans will go right back to their stupid gas-guzzling ways, send fuel prices (and the trade deficit) soaring again--and all of this economic pain will have been for naught. Worse yet, we will repeat the same cycle--only we will be even economically weaker than before.

The US does not need to be in bad economic shape because of this. All that has to be done--and, yes, it will be traumatic in the short-term--is to commit ourselves to ending our sprawling, completely auto-dependent lifestyle and--as Kunstler suggests--reorganize how we inhabit the landscape and move around in it. People recoil in horror and think that such a change would mean a life for most of crowded poverty. In reality, what it would probably look like for most of middle-class America is something akin to how our small- to medium-sized communities looked until about the 1950's--hardly a place of horrors and misery. We just need to quit being brainwashed by the land developers, automobile manufacturers, and oil companies--all who have a direct interest in perpetrating the soon to be completely untenable living arrangement we now pursue in the US.

[sterlinggirl]

Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy

I will go so far as to say, until something comes along to replace the modern automobile and/or gas goes back below $2/gal., the economy in the US is gonna be in real bad shape.

Well, watcha guys think of that?

I think you're right.....high oil was the straw that broke the camel's back. We voted in a president with a lot of ties to big oil, and we've been paying for it with high fuel prices for the past seven+ years.

I'm counting on oil staying a little lower through the next presidency, with a corresponding bust in Colorado's alternative energy and gas industries.