U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-17-2015, 02:12 PM
 
1,246 posts, read 919,506 times
Reputation: 1433

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMike View Post
Fortunately, there's quite a bit of bike tourism to offset the fact that a tiny portion of budget is spent on them.
Theres nothing wrong with having bike lanes in cities and on roads that can accommodate cyclists. As a cyclists myself I appreciate it. However, there are so many morons on bikes in this state. If you're willing to risk serious injury to exercise thats on you. I see it all the time up HW 72/34. I'm on Indiana street everyday, sometimes a group of 6-10 2 wide. I saw that the bill had money set aside to educate drivers, how about educate cyclists?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-17-2015, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Edgewater, CO
531 posts, read 912,578 times
Reputation: 642
Agreed, as a former safe cycling instructor, we do need more cyclist education.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2015, 02:21 PM
 
1,246 posts, read 919,506 times
Reputation: 1433
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMike View Post
Agreed, as a former safe cycling instructor, we do need more cyclist education.
Since living in CO I have sold my road bike. Too difficult to get to the quiet country roads living in the Denver Metro. When I was in NOCO it was different. Ironically I found PA a better place for road biking than CO. I wish there were more encouragement to keep road cyclists off canyon roads with 0 shoulder and busy roads with no bike lane.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2015, 02:24 PM
 
92 posts, read 75,567 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
CO property taxes are relatively low compared to the east coast. However the state flat tax of 4.3% or whatever is about average. Sales tax is pretty high, mostly 8% and car registration is very high here. Gas tax is low however. But since weed tax is going to bike lanes, they will probably find something else to tax now. They tried to jack up income tax and is was shot down pretty bad. Special interest groups should not be involved in the govt and taxes should not go to fund them.

CO is an interesting state. Lots of revenue from tourists, but they put the airport in Kansas. The main artery for tourists I70 needs to be expanded, yet they just add more bike lanes?

First, I agree that the airport is very inconveniently located. Where exactly were they going to build a brand new airport that would have been convenient though? If it was built in the middle of any population center the public outcry would have been enormous.

Second, they have spent a lot of money on putting a light rail line in that goes from DIA to Union Station and follows I70. Does it alleviate traffic congestion going to the mountains? No. Do you really think adding additional lanes on 70 going to the mountains is feasible or cost efficient? I don't know what the answer to the I70 question is, but I don't think it's an additional lane. There are studies that show that adding lanes only reduces congestion for a very short period of time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2015, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,904 posts, read 6,499,225 times
Reputation: 7355
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumline View Post
That sounds good but the problem with a "representative republic" as currently implemented is that when corruption goes on unchecked and is accepted, We The People are no longer "represented" by those we elect.

Regarding your second point, here in California voters seem to have little problem with voting directly for higher taxes (or bonds) on themselves by way of ballot initiatives. Most such measures succeed. So I don't believe the fact that the legislature can't do it is really holding CO back to the extent that you suggest.

As an outsider, I acknowledge that I don't really know the ins and outs of TABOR. However looking at my overall state and local tax liability here in CA and what it will be when I move to CO, I think I will actually end up paying slightly MORE in taxes overall. (I'm not yet a homeowner so I'm not considering property taxes*) So, it seems to me that Colorado shouldn't really be whining about a lack of funds, TABOR or not.


* Median property values are lower in CO so tax revenues are lower but they're re-assessed regularly. Considering the market you guys have had lately it makes a big difference in tax liability. By contrast, CA has Prop 13 which caps property tax rates and also prevents reassessment until the property is is sold. The result is that many homes' tax basis are way below their current market values, and thus property tax revenue not as great as may be otherwise assumed.

My point is that although CA does have higher overall per capita tax revenue than Colorado, CO is far from being an underfunded state.


TABOR impacts: A Formula for Decline: Lessons from Colorado for States Considering TABOR | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2015, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,218,153 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
CO property taxes are relatively low compared to the east coast. However the state flat tax of 4.3% or whatever is about average. Sales tax is pretty high, mostly 8% and car registration is very high here. Gas tax is low however. But since weed tax is going to bike lanes, they will probably find something else to tax now. They tried to jack up income tax and is was shot down pretty bad. Special interest groups should not be involved in the govt and taxes should not go to fund them.

CO is an interesting state. Lots of revenue from tourists, but they put the airport in Kansas. The main artery for tourists I70 needs to be expanded, yet they just add more bike lanes?
Well, they're going to widen the 70 from the airport (or maybe 225) to downtown. And really, where else can you build a huge airport? Planes don't take off so well in the foothills.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2015, 09:50 AM
 
1,822 posts, read 1,390,553 times
Reputation: 2087
For all the supposed greatness of TABOR, there seems to be very little about it online. And what, only one state that supports/inacted it (CO?) It's more political smoke and mirrors and slight-of-hand than something truly useful and effective. No wonder most [or all other?] states say "No thanks".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2015, 11:47 AM
 
1,246 posts, read 919,506 times
Reputation: 1433
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Well, they're going to widen the 70 from the airport (or maybe 225) to downtown. And really, where else can you build a huge airport? Planes don't take off so well in the foothills.
I wasn't around when the old airport was in Stapelton, but was there just not enough room to add/expand runways? Still seems like there was plenty of land half way between Denver and where it is now. Im there every other week, it gets annoying. Also its like $27 round trip for 470 which is stupid. At least I can expense it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2015, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Edgewater, CO
531 posts, read 912,578 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
I wasn't around when the old airport was in Stapelton, but was there just not enough room to add/expand runways? Still seems like there was plenty of land half way between Denver and where it is now. Im there every other week, it gets annoying. Also its like $27 round trip for 470 which is stupid. At least I can expense it.
This wikipedia article actually explains it pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple...tional_Airport

Specifically:
  • inadequate separation between runways, leading to extremely long waits in bad weather
  • little or no room for other airlines that proposed/wanted to use Stapleton for new destinations (an example of this was Southwest Airlines)
  • a lawsuit over aircraft noise, brought by residents of the nearby Park Hill community
  • legal threats by Adams County, Colorado, to block a runway extension into Rocky Mountain Arsenal lands

The last two were basically what put the nail in the coffin for Stapleton.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2015, 02:11 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,515 times
Reputation: 697
Sounds like a schlock partisan "study" to me. Lots of correlation is identified, but no causal links established. If spending decreased on schools and infrastructure, where did all the money go? That's not TABOR's fault, that's the legislature's fault for reallocating the money to (probably) pork-barrel spending.

Colorado has no shortage of state and local tax revenue. Historically it's had about 10% less per-capita than the national average and almost exactly on the nationwide median. These figures did not deviate appreciably during the years that TABOR was suspended. Federal State Local Government Tax Revenue in United States for 2015 - Charts Tables

It seems to me that if you're not happy with how things like schools and infrastructure have been funded, blaming TABOR is not helpful; people need to start looking at where the money is actually going.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:08 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top