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Old 09-16-2015, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Chanute, KS
302 posts, read 367,790 times
Reputation: 871

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post

Colorado is not a haven for illegals either. State laws are very strict in this regard. The children of illegal immigrants can attend the public schools, but classes are still taught in English. Every other state funded assistance program is screened to prevent non-residents (including illegals) from taking advantage of them. Yes, the cost of living has gone up, etc., etc., but one problem Colorado does NOT have is floods of illegals. .

Wow. I guess you have never had to go to the Emergency Room, or needed to visit a food bank. Or had to sit in the waiting room at Social Services. I never said they taught the classes in anything other than English. The teachers spend a lot more time with the students who don't speak it, while the other students sit there waiting.

Denver is a Sanctuary City, whether you believe it or not. The illegals do get food stamps, section 8 housing and many other benefits due to having children in the US. Many places (McDonalds, Arbys, etc.) will not hire you if you don't speak Spanish, at least that's how it is in Aurora. My husband is a welder and couldn't find a job because he only speaks English.

I don't blame them for coming here. I have a friend from Mexico who explained to me that many illegals come here because it is so awful and dangerous where they came from. She said many don't really want to be here, but felt there was no choice. They don't want to assimilate because they love their culture and their country, but it makes it difficult for the the citizens who have to adapt to them because they refuse to adapt to us.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:43 AM
 
92 posts, read 75,567 times
Reputation: 164
I also have never understood why some people dislike TABOR. Heaven forbid a new tax need majority approval to get passed. I think the people of Colorado have done alright...voting to legalize marijuana, approving RTD for light rail in the Denver Metro, etc. Allowing a bunch of taxes for special interest groups is what TABOR stops. Convince the population that the tax affects that it is needed. If you can't, it won't pass. If legislators actually represented the interests of the people that elected them, TABOR wouldn't be necessary.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
2,659 posts, read 2,307,776 times
Reputation: 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadKittehs View Post
Wow. I guess you have never had to go to the Emergency Room, or needed to visit a food bank. Or had to sit in the waiting room at Social Services. I never said they taught the classes in anything other than English. The teachers spend a lot more time with the students who don't speak it, while the other students sit there waiting.

Denver is a Sanctuary City, whether you believe it or not. The illegals do get food stamps, section 8 housing and many other benefits due to having children in the US. Many places (McDonalds, Arbys, etc.) will not hire you if you don't speak Spanish, at least that's how it is in Aurora. My husband is a welder and couldn't find a job because he only speaks English.

I don't blame them for coming here. I have a friend from Mexico who explained to me that many illegals come here because it is so awful and dangerous where they came from. She said many don't really want to be here, but felt there was no choice. They don't want to assimilate because they love their culture and their country, but it makes it difficult for the the citizens who have to adapt to them because they refuse to adapt to us.
That becomes a problem here when they don't assimilate. People who don't want to adapt to the culture can move their happy ass back where they came from. Let's say you move to Germany, or China, do you try to blend in or fight against the sovereignty of the county and try to change it?
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,904 posts, read 6,499,225 times
Reputation: 7355
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkbill View Post
I also have never understood why some people dislike TABOR. Heaven forbid a new tax need majority approval to get passed. I think the people of Colorado have done alright...voting to legalize marijuana, approving RTD for light rail in the Denver Metro, etc. Allowing a bunch of taxes for special interest groups is what TABOR stops. Convince the population that the tax affects that it is needed. If you can't, it won't pass. If legislators actually represented the interests of the people that elected them, TABOR wouldn't be necessary.
Because it changes policy discussions in to political discussions and talking points.
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Old 09-16-2015, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
2,659 posts, read 2,307,776 times
Reputation: 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkbill View Post
I also have never understood why some people dislike TABOR. Heaven forbid a new tax need majority approval to get passed. I think the people of Colorado have done alright...voting to legalize marijuana, approving RTD for light rail in the Denver Metro, etc. Allowing a bunch of taxes for special interest groups is what TABOR stops. Convince the population that the tax affects that it is needed. If you can't, it won't pass. If legislators actually represented the interests of the people that elected them, TABOR wouldn't be necessary.
They complain about TABOR, but they don't realize the special interest pet projects like this one that will cost $100 million and generate no tax revenue because cyclists without automobiles don't pay into it. That money could be used to widen I-270, widen I-76 from Wadsworth Blvd to Keenesburg and widen C-470 to 10 lanes.

Hickenlooper promises $100 million to make Colorado "the best state for biking" in the country - The Denver Post
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Old 09-16-2015, 11:30 AM
 
387 posts, read 271,515 times
Reputation: 697
^ I still can't believe you guys re-elected him.
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Old 09-16-2015, 11:54 AM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,697 posts, read 4,333,575 times
Reputation: 10278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunderpig2 View Post
I'll add more point about TABOR, and that is, that expanding the roads doesn't necessarily mean raising taxes (and running into TABOR restrictions). A lot of states make much-needed roadwork happen without raising taxes. People have gotten so used to blaming TABOR, that they just stop there and say, "Well, we can't do anything about the roads". Maybe it's time for a long-overdue overhaul of how taxpayer money is spent. What's so great about the state if people get stuck in unnecessary traffic, wasteful idleing/pollution, increase unpredictability in time getting to work, and hampering safety in the events of accidents and emergencies? There's a cost factor for all of that too, and seems ignored.

In northern CO at least , they are gung ho about building more mass-storage living units (you know, those three-story slums that cram lots of people into small spaces at premium costs), but don't widen the two-lane roads in front of them that get worse every day. And the interstate nearby is only two lanes on both sides. Three lanes would make a huge difference, but what do they do instead? spend money building miles of posts and heavy cables attached together to prevent people from going off onto the access roads. (nice use of our money ). The interstate nearby is often a parking lot daily for people trying to get to and from work, not to mention the commerce and travelers going through the state. There really should be no excuse for any of that. The state is way too dysfunctional in that area...
Well, TABOR has given us TAX FREE RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA today, everybody. Woo-hoo! (I don't smoke the stuff, so I couldn't care less). And a "lot of states" don't have TABOR and may have different tax structures in place that allow them to better maintain their roads. If you could give us specific examples of these states that make much needed roadwork at no additional expense to the taxpayer, I'd be interested to know which states and how they pulled this feat off. That way I could e-mail the state legislature with some useful suggestions. Infra-structure is also a national problem because Congress doesn't want to cough up the extra money on the federal level. That said, I can complain about Colorado's roads along with everyone else. For example out here in the Four Corners, highway 491 beyween Cortez and the state line with New Mexico at Shiprock is an outright death trap. Traffic gets funneled in from highway 160 with no provision made for the additional impact made on this stretch of 491. Accidents - some fatal - are a constant. Last summer a band aide was applied to the problem in the form of some rumble strips and a huge, ugly, electronic highway warning sign which I have yet to see ever being put to actual use. The impact has been to make 491 even noisier and the number of traffic accidents remains mostly unchanged. The stretch between Cortez and Shiprock desperately needs to be made 4-lanes, but I ain't holding my breath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadKittehs View Post
~ snip ~ Wow. I guess you have never had to go to the Emergency Room, or needed to visit a food bank. Or had to sit in the waiting room at Social Services. ~ snip
Food banks are mostly operated by private charities - often churches and other religous organizations. Individuals can also make donations to food banks. I have donated my extra garden produce to food banks both out here and in Colorado Springs. Tax payers don't fund food banks, so food banks don't have the same requirements in place that state and federally funded programs do. If you don't care to support your local food bank, don't.

Quote:
~ snip ~ Denver is a Sanctuary City, whether you believe it or not. ~ snip ~
The term "Sanctuary City" most commonly is used for cities that do not permit municipal funds or resources to be applied in furtherance of enforcement of federal immigration laws. These cities normally do not permit police or municipal employees to inquire about one's immigration status. The designation of "Sanctuary City” has no legal meaning. Why should the residents of Denver pay extra to enforce federal laws when they are already paying income taxes that - at least in theory - should pay for the enforcement of federal laws? Denver chooses to not double tax its residents - way to go, Denver!

Quote:
~ snip ~ The illegals do get food stamps, section 8 housing and many other benefits due to having children in the US. Many places (McDonalds, Arbys, etc.) will not hire you if you don't speak Spanish, at least that's how it is in Aurora. My husband is a welder and couldn't find a job because he only speaks English. ~ snip ~
I am very sorry to learn that you have experienced such extreme difficulties that you personally have been forced to go down to social services and apply for SNAP (food stamps) and then go hit the Denver Housing Authority to apply for section 8 only to discover that even the wait list for a housing voucher is closed. These can be tough times, and my heart goes out to you. BTW, section 8 is a federally funded program, not state. Colorado taxes don't pay for anyone's housing voucher.

I am an advocate for Colorado residents with disabilities in addition to having a disability myself, so I have current personal experience with the programs you mention. County Social Services in Colorado require strict proof of both Colorado and legal US residency to be eligible for assistance. True, an individual child born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents would be eligible for benefits the same way as any other US citizen is. If you dislike the way citizenship is determined, take it up with the Feds. Colorado has nothing to do with it. As for the federally funded section 8 program, housing authorities throughout Colorado and the rest of the US have been forced to close their wait lists due to lack of funding. It is exceedingly difficult for even a legal resident to get a housing voucher, never mind an illegal one. Just Google "section 8" and "Denver" to see for yourself.

I have no idea what the vocational requirements for welders are, so I'll take your word for the bilingual thing. As for the rest, my Dad used to live in Aurora and I am amazed to learn that Aurora has turned into such a major stronghold for Hispanics (legal or not) in the short period of time since I last visited there. According to the City of Aurora's website, 30% of the population is self-reported Latino. That leaves 70% of Aurora as non-Hispanic. So, I have difficulty believing Aurora employers would have such blanket requirements for bi-lingualism.
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Old 09-16-2015, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Edgewater, CO
531 posts, read 912,578 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
They complain about TABOR, but they don't realize the special interest pet projects like this one that will cost $100 million and generate no tax revenue because cyclists without automobiles don't pay into it. That money could be used to widen I-270, widen I-76 from Wadsworth Blvd to Keenesburg and widen C-470 to 10 lanes.

Hickenlooper promises $100 million to make Colorado "the best state for biking" in the country - The Denver Post
You really have no idea how transportation infrastructure is funded, do you?

Even if my family didn't own cars or drove anywhere, we'd still be paying to fund this through property taxes, sales taxes and income taxes. Roads themselves aren't entirely paid for by automobile specific taxes and fees, not by a long shot. This is just a stupid argument.
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Old 09-16-2015, 12:38 PM
 
1,822 posts, read 1,390,553 times
Reputation: 2087
And a "lot of states"* don't have TABOR and may have different tax structures in place that allow them to better maintain their roads. If you could give us specific examples of these states that make much needed roadwork at no additional expense to the taxpayer, I'd be interested to know which states and how they pulled this feat off. That way I could e-mail the state legislature with some useful suggestions.

As one example, that most dreaded of states (Texas) builds roads and supports infrastructure all the time, with no ringing of hands and gnashing of teeth over taxes. Gasp! Very much a pro-growth place. But trying to pass on that info. to CO legislatures - especially with TX in the sentence - would be met with fingers in the ears and loud moanings of LA LA LA...

*I'm not sure why that is in quotations. Aren't there more states without TABOR than do have it? It doesn't take straightjacket approaches like that to fix problems and avoid taxes. Hey, speaking of that, why don't they do away with the horrible CO state income tax? Ultimately, it isn't about limiting taxes, it's more about playing games.

Last edited by Sunderpig2; 09-16-2015 at 12:56 PM..
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:42 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,697 posts, read 4,333,575 times
Reputation: 10278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunderpig2 View Post
And a "lot of states"* don't have TABOR and may have different tax structures in place that allow them to better maintain their roads. If you could give us specific examples of these states that make much needed roadwork at no additional expense to the taxpayer, I'd be interested to know which states and how they pulled this feat off. That way I could e-mail the state legislature with some useful suggestions.

As one example, that most dreaded of states (Texas) builds roads and supports infrastructure all the time, with no ringing of hands and gnashing of teeth over taxes. Gasp! Very much a pro-growth place. But trying to pass on that info. to CO legislatures - especially with TX in the sentence - would be met with fingers in the ears and loud moanings of LA LA LA...

*I'm not sure why that is in quotations. Aren't there more states without TABOR than do have it? It doesn't take straightjacket approaches like that to fix problems and avoid taxes. Hey, speaking of that, why don't they do away with the horrible CO state income tax? Ultimately, it isn't about limiting taxes, it's more about playing games.
I was taught that when quoting another person, one uses quotation marks.
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