Objective Opinion on State's Future (Denver, Center: 2015, income, property tax rates)

[sammy87]

Originally Posted by rumline

^ I still can't believe you guys re-elected him.

Yeah he's pretty terrible, but he use to own a brewery so I guess theres a perceived cool factor that people find important for some reason. The last thing CO roads need is more idiot cyclists. I've seen 2 wide on Indiana street and 2 wide going up HW 72. Hey guess who loses if I might get into a head on collision vs running a biker off the road? After my 2nd yr in CO I sold my road bike.

[Rainbow Demon]

If folks are worried about bicyclists without cars not paying into the tax base...are they also worried that the turn lane and signage installed down the block at the neighborhood church wasn't AT ALL funded by >>>the business that is the church<<< who also paid no taxes? Sadly, I doubt it. Wrap anything in God or the flag and it is passable and allowed...whether it serves everyone equally or not.

I'd rather subsidize the bike riders of this state than the churches. Ride on.

[hawkbill]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Because it changes policy discussions in to political discussions and talking points.

How is it any different than any other state. Other states you just get the 2 parties working together and we'll vote for your special interest bill, if you vote for ours. So we end up with two crappy pieces of legislation that the majority of people don't want.

The anti-TABOR group that think majority votes are good for electing a representative, but not approving a tax, seem contradictory. We're smart enough to elect someone, but not enough to vote on tax policy? Like I said earlier, there have been plenty of instances where taxes have been approved (marijuana, RTD, various sales taxes). Heaven forbid a special interest has to convince a majority of Coloradoans that we should be increasing funding for their cause.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by hawkbill

How is it any different than any other state. Other states you just get the 2 parties working together and we'll vote for your special interest bill, if you vote for ours. So we end up with two crappy pieces of legislation that the majority of people don't want.

The anti-TABOR group that think majority votes are good for electing a representative, but not approving a tax, seem contradictory. We're smart enough to elect someone, but not enough to vote on tax policy? Like I said earlier, there have been plenty of instances where taxes have been approved (marijuana, RTD, various sales taxes). Heaven forbid a special interest has to convince a majority of Coloradoans that we should be increasing funding for their cause.

It's quite different. Our government is supposed to be set up as a representative democracy. TABOR removes the representative piece from that. Things that aren't sexy, but need new funding don't happen under it.

[hawkbill]

Very few things NEED funding. Many groups WANT funding, or some small subset of people feel they NEED funding.

[NW Crow]

Wikipedia says Colorado is the only state with TABOR. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxpayer_Bill_of_Rights Introduced in at least half the states (including Republican dominated Nebraska) and often multiple times, but none have passed it in 23 years. When no state follows on a idea, the idea may not be that good or necessary.

[rumline]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

It's quite different. Our government is supposed to be set up as a representative democracy. TABOR removes the representative piece from that. Things that aren't sexy, but need new funding don't happen under it.

That sounds good but the problem with a "representative republic" as currently implemented is that when corruption goes on unchecked and is accepted, We The People are no longer "represented" by those we elect.

Regarding your second point, here in California voters seem to have little problem with voting directly for higher taxes (or bonds) on themselves by way of ballot initiatives. Most such measures succeed. So I don't believe the fact that the legislature can't do it is really holding CO back to the extent that you suggest.

As an outsider, I acknowledge that I don't really know the ins and outs of TABOR. However looking at my overall state and local tax liability here in CA and what it will be when I move to CO, I think I will actually end up paying slightly MORE in taxes overall. (I'm not yet a homeowner so I'm not considering property taxes*) So, it seems to me that Colorado shouldn't really be whining about a lack of funds, TABOR or not.


* Median property values are lower in CO so tax revenues are lower but they're re-assessed regularly. Considering the market you guys have had lately it makes a big difference in tax liability. By contrast, CA has Prop 13 which caps property tax rates and also prevents reassessment until the property is is sold. The result is that many homes' tax basis are way below their current market values, and thus property tax revenue not as great as may be otherwise assumed.

My point is that although CA does have higher overall per capita tax revenue than Colorado, CO is far from being an underfunded state.

[NW Crow]

It is pretty shocking actually that places like Texas, Arizona or Idaho didn't pass TABOR. Don't know if they have something similarly motivated but functionally different. Apparently though the Republicans wanted to preserve the right to decide there instead of being bound by a formula.

Arguably TABOR probably made electing a Democratic Governor less "scary" for some middle of the road voters and electing a Republican a bit less "necessary" to the fiscally concerned. Since it passed I believe it is 5 Democratic Wins for Governor vs. 2 for the Republicans.

[sammy87]

Originally Posted by rumline

That sounds good but the problem with a "representative republic" as currently implemented is that when corruption goes on unchecked and is accepted, We The People are no longer "represented" by those we elect.

Regarding your second point, here in California voters seem to have little problem with voting directly for higher taxes (or bonds) on themselves by way of ballot initiatives. Most such measures succeed. So I don't believe the fact that the legislature can't do it is really holding CO back to the extent that you suggest.

As an outsider, I acknowledge that I don't really know the ins and outs of TABOR. However looking at my overall state and local tax liability here in CA and what it will be when I move to CO, I think I will actually end up paying slightly MORE in taxes overall. (I'm not yet a homeowner so I'm not considering property taxes*) So, it seems to me that Colorado shouldn't really be whining about a lack of funds, TABOR or not.


* Median property values are lower in CO so tax revenues are lower but they're re-assessed regularly. Considering the market you guys have had lately it makes a big difference in tax liability. By contrast, CA has Prop 13 which caps property tax rates and also prevents reassessment until the property is is sold. The result is that many homes' tax basis are way below their current market values, and thus property tax revenue not as great as may be otherwise assumed.

My point is that although CA does have higher overall per capita tax revenue than Colorado, CO is far from being an underfunded state.

CO property taxes are relatively low compared to the east coast. However the state flat tax of 4.3% or whatever is about average. Sales tax is pretty high, mostly 8% and car registration is very high here. Gas tax is low however. But since weed tax is going to bike lanes, they will probably find something else to tax now. They tried to jack up income tax and is was shot down pretty bad. Special interest groups should not be involved in the govt and taxes should not go to fund them.

CO is an interesting state. Lots of revenue from tourists, but they put the airport in Kansas. The main artery for tourists I70 needs to be expanded, yet they just add more bike lanes?

[TechMike]

Originally Posted by sammy87

CO property taxes are relatively low compared to the east coast. However the state flat tax of 4.3% or whatever is about average. Sales tax is pretty high, mostly 8% and car registration is very high here. Gas tax is low however. But since weed tax is going to bike lanes, they will probably find something else to tax now. They tried to jack up income tax and is was shot down pretty bad. Special interest groups should not be involved in the govt and taxes should not go to fund them.

CO is an interesting state. Lots of revenue from tourists, but they put the airport in Kansas. The main artery for tourists I70 needs to be expanded, yet they just add more bike lanes?

Fortunately, there's quite a bit of bike tourism to offset the fact that a tiny portion of budget is spent on them.