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Old 09-11-2016, 11:12 PM
 
93 posts, read 53,152 times
Reputation: 92

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"Are you kidding? No it would create more. Just what this state needs higher taxes and more deadbeats moving here."

How do you know? Are you a mystic who can predict the future?

 
Old 09-11-2016, 11:56 PM
 
93 posts, read 53,152 times
Reputation: 92
"Roads and health care are 2 completely different things. Yeah everyone uses a road, but you choose what you want with your health. I shouldn't have to pay for someone who decides to eat cake every night and drink/smoke themselves to death."

Actually, they are similar. Everyone both needs and uses roads and they will both need and use health care. And whether you know it or not, you are already paying for that person who eats cake or drinks themselves to death every night. You pay for it in higher premiums that go up and up every single year because the cost of that chain smoker dying of lung cancer and who does not have insurance is passed onto you and the insurance companies make billions a year off that.

"Well...I have 2 degrees, served in the military, ran my own businesses, college athlete....

Well, we share some things in common. I also have two degrees and have run my own business. I did not serve in the military, nor was I a college athlete, though am quite athletic. I did not have time in college because I was working two jobs in college, plus a full load of studies and the athletic program was small there.

"I worked my a$$ off to be attractive to companies and have the ability to control my destiny."

When you were in the military, it was the military that controlled your destiny while you were in the military. When you are trying to be "attractive to companies," it is they who control your destiny no matter how much you think you have "the ability to control my destiny." When you lose your job at the company because you get sick, like what happened to me, or a new department head fires you because your wages/bennies are too high and they can get a bonus for coming in under budget, that is how your destiny is controlled. Luckily, for you, you have the military health care (or the sake of debate, I will assume this is true), but if you did not, you would be very happy that ColoradoCare was there for you to take care of your destiny.


"You sound like a liberal so how far have you gotten from one of the most famous liberal politicians?"

I am a liberal and proud of it. And it depends upon how your define "what you can do for your country." I was a VISTA volunteer, for example, working on anti-poverty programs in the wealthiest nation on earth, while the corporate titans like Steven Helmsley of UnitedHealthcare, made over $66 million in salary and bonuses last year. United is now pulling out of the Colorado exchanges, leaving thousands of Coloradans without health insurance while their profits "jumped almost 29% year over year in the first quarter, totaling more than $1.4 billion. UnitedHealth's revenue increased 13% to $35.8 billion. First-quarter earnings per share were $1.46, beating Wall Street's consensus of $1.35 per share. (http://www.modernhealthcare.com/arti...NEWS/304169977

Now who is doing more for their country, the vista volunteer working with the victims of this or UnitedHealthcare?


"Every Liberal wants more and more from the country and the citizens."

Yes, we liberals want more dignity and justice for our country and its citizens instead of the above example.
 
Old 09-12-2016, 08:29 AM
 
1,246 posts, read 919,200 times
Reputation: 1433
Ok Ill bite on your highway comparison.

Everybody uses highways, the result is they are falling apart and there is never enough money to repair them. So what does CO do? Privatize them and make them toll roads! Imagine that, if you want to use them, you gotta pay!

Now I own my drive way, Im the only one that uses it. Its in great shape, not worried about it at all, I can take care of it. If something catastrophic happens I can pay out of pocket or I can use my private home owners insurance. I dont have to worry about heavy trucks beating it up...now if it became a free public parking spot....Im sure it will wear down and eventually need replaced. Likewise a neighbor a few houses down has a large F350, parks boats in his driveway...it gets more wear and tear but its his and he's on the hook for taking care of it. The rest of the neighbor hood doesn't have to pitch in and put of the cash to replace it.

And BTW after serving I am 100% convinced that Govt run health care would be equally as inefficient and poorly managed just as every other program.

You should really consider moving to Sweden.
 
Old 09-12-2016, 09:53 AM
 
20,840 posts, read 39,052,603 times
Reputation: 19074
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
Ok Ill bite on your highway comparison.

Everybody uses highways, the result is they are falling apart and there is never enough money to repair them. So what does CO do? Privatize them and make them toll roads! Imagine that, if you want to use them, you gotta pay!

....
Terrible idea. We're all in this together. Even if one never drives, they "use" the highway to get goods delivered to them or to the stores they patronize. Even if they take a taxi everywhere, they still "use" the highways. This is a democracy, we are supposed to be one for all and all for one. Shared benefit and shared responsibility to include a shared responsibility to pay even if we never drive, or visit Yellowstone, etc.

Our national defense serves ALL of us, even though just 1% of the population is IN the military and even though we have pacifists who refuse to serve in our mutual defense, we all pay the taxes to support the military.

We don't get to pick and choose what we want to pay for and in many cases we don't get to heap all the costs of something on only those who use it. We all pay to support public schools, even though 20-25% of us never have kids. It's a sunk cost for our nation's future. In my lifetime my wife and I have paid a lot of real estate tax and about $75k+ of that tax money went/goes to support public schools. I'm not going to whine about making just parents pay that whole tab, same way I'm not going to whine about paying for a fire department I've never called or a police department I called only one time.

Back on topic.

We need a national single payer system for health care where ALL of us pay into it and if and when we ever need it we have people and places ready and able to serve our medical needs. One for all, all for one.

Bear in mind that I'm NOT talking about British-style "socialized medicine" which is characterized by the British Government actually OWNING the hospitals and medical facilities and the medical personnel actually are EMPLOYEES of the British government. No one wants that here. Medicare works fine with just about 5% overhead, and I'm all in favor of expanding that to all citizens.

In my scheme, we'd all pay in (aka buy-in) to Medicare. All of us would be free to pick our doctors and Medicare would pay them. Just as Medicare has done for 50 years. Period.

My scheme involves increasing the amount of buy-in from the employee side of the paycheck. Buy-in is mandatory, just like SS and Income Taxes. We'd get our annual physical in the month we were born in. Your doctor would certify in writing about two key areas: (1) Your BMI, and (2) Your status as a non-smoker. If your BMI is in the healthy range then you get back on your tax return 5% of your buy-in to Medicare. If you're a non-smoker you get another 5% back on your taxes. The buy-in means you have skin in the game and the possible rebates on taxes gets at incentivizing people to take care of themselves and save Medicare a fortune later on.

(Side issue, I'd love to know the cost in dollars of treating just one obese diabetic case over a lifetime of such things as hypertension, kidney dialysis/failure/transplant, amputations, unemployment, food stamps, etc. My seat of the pants swag is about $1M per case, paid mostly by taxpayers. Multiply that times 1M cases and you have $1T if medical costs over a 40-year period. Prevention is worth a fortune saved.)

With a mortgage, everyone pays for mandatory homeowners insurance, and in many cases PMI too. Drivers are required to have auto insurance. Health "insurance" via buy-in to Medicare should be mandatory for all citizens.

It gripes me that our corporate world has to be in the health insurance business, they should be free to compete on the global stage without these costs added onto their other costs of goods and services. This started in WW-II when large defense contractors had to compete for scarce engineering and manufacturing skills. Truman tried to end that in 1948 with a national plan, but the usual suspects stood up and blocked him. So here we are, 76 years after WW-II ended and we're still mucking around with a short-term quick fix from the war years that should have ceased just after the war effort. Under my scheme the employers could provide cadillac plans for added services and benefits if they choose but everyone would have basic service via Medicare.

My scheme has more tweaks to it. Instead of our annual madhouse of filing taxes by April 15, we'd spread it out all year based on month of birth. With payroll and other records being automated this should be easy to do and it would balance the workload at the IRS, accountants, tax preparers, etc. We'd get our annual physical, take our doctor's certification, and file it with our taxes within 60 days of the end of our birth month. If corporations can have a fiscal year starting and ending on any date of their choosing, we should too.

So, all that being said, we need to seriously remake how we do health insurance and taxation in the nation.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 09-12-2016 at 10:55 AM.. Reason: damned typos
 
Old 09-13-2016, 10:22 PM
 
93 posts, read 53,152 times
Reputation: 92
"Everybody uses highways, the result is they are falling apart and there is never enough money to repair them. So what does CO do? Privatize them and make them toll roads! Imagine that, if you want to use them, you gotta pay!"

Yes, and then they would most likely fall apart worse. Then, perhaps, one owner of a part of a continuous stretch of road may plow it, while the next owner on down the line might not, and so on. Somewhere, and I forget where now, I read of a privatized fire department down in Tennessee. They raced to a burning house, only to discover that it was in a competitor's territory. So they sat there and watched the house burn, while waiting for the competitor fire house to show up. We've almost got that now in health care.

"And BTW after serving I am 100% convinced that Govt run health care would be equally as inefficient and poorly managed just as every other program."

Well, for what it is worth, and this is certainly not meant to be demeaning, but you when you wore the uniform of whatever service were part of the most efficient welfare system on earth -- the military-industrial complex, that Eisenhower warned us about, which is highly efficient at sucking up taxpayers dollars. I am not sure if you are on tricare yet, or whatever, but I want you to compare Tricare to signing up for a private policy with its deductibles and compare the efficiency of each one. And then look at why seniors are so susceptible to panic when some Fox News caster gins it up that this or that reform is going to take away their Medicare

"You should really consider moving to Sweden."

I have lived in a nation with a universal care system, though it was not Sweden. I have also been to other universal care nations and have worked with many from these nations over here. Believe me, they do not want to exchange their system for one as dubious as ours.


"We need a national single payer system for health care where ALL of us pay into it and if and when we ever need it we have people and places ready and able to serve our medical needs. One for all, all for one."

I agree, Mike. It would be so much simpler that way and would cost us less, not to mention the unbelievable stress of fighting a private insurance company to get your bill paid, or out-of-network hassles, and so on. All of us pay into it and it's there for when we need it, and not be denied, or have to wait until open enrollments, and all the rest of it.

"So, all that being said, we need to seriously remake how we do health insurance and taxation in the nation."

I fully agree. Way too many corporations are getting away with paying no taxes or very little, while shifting their tax burden to us, and we need to "seriously remake how we do health insurance," as well into a medicare-for-all. Sadly, since the national government will not do this for a century or more, it falls to the states to do it and Colorado to be the first to do it.

__________________
 
Old 09-19-2016, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,525 posts, read 10,194,145 times
Reputation: 9757
From the ColoradoCare website:

How will people get care when they’re out of state?

The not-for-profit Board of Trustees will have the authority to set these policies and adjust and improve them to meet the needs of Coloradans. The Board will be working for the patients and providers of Colorado, not for return on investment to out-of-state shareholders.

Translation - We haven't figured that out yet, but if you give us a $25 billion check we'll give it the ol' college try.

If, after reading this non-answer to a very pertinent question, you vote yes on this pile of garbage you get precisely what you deserve.
 
Old 09-20-2016, 07:34 AM
 
13,294 posts, read 25,463,471 times
Reputation: 20387
I honestly hope it gets clobbered big-time. You cannot make a massive change on a small scale like this. I work in health care, have studied health policy and consider myself well informed on the subject on a factual level and this plan is pie in sky stuff.
 
Old 09-20-2016, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,886 posts, read 102,281,764 times
Reputation: 32946
Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
I honestly hope it gets clobbered big-time. You cannot make a massive change on a small scale like this. I work in health care, have studied health policy and consider myself well informed on the subject on a factual level and this plan is pie in sky stuff.
Totally agree! Most people want more benefits for less money. That's what 69 is promising. Not going to happen. All this "waste, fraud and abuse" is unproven. Does it happen? Yes, of course. Is it massive? I don't know; don't think so. That's my educated opinion. It's probably all interwoven too, which means it would be hard to get rid of.

Someone is still going to have to administer this program. I'm a bit suspicious of Medicare's low admin. rate. They're part of the federal government, they can hide stuff all over the budget. They contract out their benefits administration, does that show up in their budget or somewhere else?
 
Old 09-20-2016, 09:30 PM
 
2,614 posts, read 2,227,368 times
Reputation: 4888
I do believe in universal, single payer healthcare, but IMO you can't do it at the state level only, especially just one state in the entire nation. It has to be done at the federal level for everyone at the same time in order to be successful.
 
Old 09-21-2016, 06:51 AM
 
1,561 posts, read 2,817,479 times
Reputation: 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Totally agree! That's what 69 is promising. Not going to happen. All this "waste, fraud and abuse" is unproven. Does it happen? Yes, of course. Is it massive? I don't know; don't think so. That's my educated opinion.
I worked in healthcare for 30+ years. I'd estimate "waste, fraud and abuse" at 50% of what's billed, especially for diagnostic testing. Of course, a significant part of that is practicing "defensive medicine," as a pre-emptive defense against a lawsuit for a poor outcome.
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