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Old 10-17-2016, 12:43 AM
 
93 posts, read 53,185 times
Reputation: 92

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"If you travel to Europe or even Canada you will learn this very quickly. Everything has a tax to pay for healthcare and all the other social programs. Most of it goes to health care. Most Euro nations are around 40% tax rate for the people. Yeah health care is "free" but then look at all goods and services."

You conveniently forgot a few other things here. They also pay for so many other social benefits that we do not have -- education and college tuition free or at dramatically lower cost than here at the point of delivery, day care, retirement pensions (as opposed to 401Ks and a meagre social security), longer vacations, sick leaves, much longer maternity leaves, and so on. Our students are drowning in student debt that can go up into the hundreds of thousands of dollars and over 60 percent of bankruptcies in our country are caused by medical debt and this is among those with insurance. The list can go on. You may say that they have high taxes and it costs a lot, but we probably pay much more in things like fees, premiums, and property taxes as our system keeps milking us.

 
Old 10-17-2016, 01:00 AM
 
93 posts, read 53,185 times
Reputation: 92
"That was your only choice? I find that surprising."

Yes, it was. The only choice. Well, wait, we had some others, though these were not really choices. We could have bought insurance on our own from some other company (this was before Obamacare) if we had the money for the premiums and could afford the same deductibles or worse ones or we could have joined the millions of uninsured in America. Those were our choices. Millions of employees face these same choices.

"A few months, maybe years into it, they'll be running out of money."

Insurance premiums are rising by some 20-40% this year alone for Colorado. How many years will it be before Colorado runs out of money to constantly pay these rising premiums and deductibles? Since costs will always rise no matter what the system at least ColoradoCare gives the us the option to vote on these raises and what they will be. You do not have that same right with an insurance company board of directors.
 
Old 10-17-2016, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Castle Rock, Co
1,614 posts, read 2,667,199 times
Reputation: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by asusual View Post
"That was your only choice? I find that surprising."

Yes, it was. The only choice. Well, wait, we had some others, though these were not really choices. We could have bought insurance on our own from some other company (this was before Obamacare) if we had the money for the premiums and could afford the same deductibles or worse ones or we could have joined the millions of uninsured in America. Those were our choices. Millions of employees face these same choices.

"A few months, maybe years into it, they'll be running out of money."

Insurance premiums are rising by some 20-40% this year alone for Colorado. How many years will it be before Colorado runs out of money to constantly pay these rising premiums and deductibles? Since costs will always rise no matter what the system at least ColoradoCare gives the us the option to vote on these raises and what they will be. You do not have that same right with an insurance company board of directors.
No, but when private plans compete against subsidized plans, we all lose. what is needed is more competition in the market place, more protection against frivolous malpractice suits, a culture of taking care of our bodies. This includes employers doing more to offer health benefits such as discounted/free gym memberships, easy and affordable access to healthy foods/whatever else they can reasonably offer to help busy employees take care of their bodies.

We could also use the government to step in and ban all of these chemicals in our foods, skin products and do more to assist green energy (or less to help dirty energy, im actually more in favor of a free market with no subsidies). That would drastically lower our medical costs.

Until then, we will continue to be ripped off, live unhealthy and be forced in to substandard health plans.
 
Old 10-17-2016, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,889 posts, read 102,319,187 times
Reputation: 32951
Quote:
Originally Posted by asusual View Post
"That was your only choice? I find that surprising."

Yes, it was. The only choice. Well, wait, we had some others, though these were not really choices. We could have bought insurance on our own from some other company (this was before Obamacare) if we had the money for the premiums and could afford the same deductibles or worse ones or we could have joined the millions of uninsured in America. Those were our choices. Millions of employees face these same choices.

"A few months, maybe years into it, they'll be running out of money."

Insurance premiums are rising by some 20-40% this year alone for Colorado. How many years will it be before Colorado runs out of money to constantly pay these rising premiums and deductibles? Since costs will always rise no matter what the system at least ColoradoCare gives the us the option to vote on these raises and what they will be. You do not have that same right with an insurance company board of directors.
So your examples go all the way back to pre-ACA? You want to go back in time, let me tell you what it was like when we were having our kids in the 80s. The first was in 1984. DH was working in IT for Climax Molybdenum, and we had the same insurance as was negotiated for the miners by the UMW. It was great! All we had to pay for, the entire pregnancy, was the TV rental in the hospital. The second was in 1987. DH was working for a 5 employee company, coverage was awful; we had to pay 20% of everything. I was older so I needed an amnio, 20% of that was pretty expensive, I don't recall now how much. There were some things the doctor said I needed that the insurance didn't pay for at all. TV was included in the room rate that year, no extra charge. Things have gotten better for small businesses since then.

The sentence in bold makes no sense. Colorado isn't paying for most people's insurance. Those of us up here in Boulder County know first-hand what happens when a government agency runs out of money. We've seen it with Fastracks. "Oh, ha ha; you want that commuter rail we promised you? When H*ll freezes over, oh, maybe by 2042." Forgive my skepticism of state agencies.
 
Old 10-18-2016, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,889 posts, read 102,319,187 times
Reputation: 32951
Here are my thoughts as of tonight:

I wish they were proposing something a little more modest, sort of like Medicare, which has Part A (hospitalization) for everyone who paid into it, and Part B (major medical) for those who elect to pay a premium. Both of these Medicare programs have deductibles and co-pays as well. They are promising the stars and not asking for enough money to pay for the moon.
 
Old 10-18-2016, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,530 posts, read 10,200,595 times
Reputation: 9757
Got my ballot today. Voting an emphatic NO tonight.
 
Old 10-19-2016, 09:25 AM
 
1,246 posts, read 919,712 times
Reputation: 1433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Tim Tim View Post
No, but when private plans compete against subsidized plans, we all lose. what is needed is more competition in the market place, more protection against frivolous malpractice suits, a culture of taking care of our bodies. This includes employers doing more to offer health benefits such as discounted/free gym memberships, easy and affordable access to healthy foods/whatever else they can reasonably offer to help busy employees take care of their bodies.

We could also use the government to step in and ban all of these chemicals in our foods, skin products and do more to assist green energy (or less to help dirty energy, im actually more in favor of a free market with no subsidies). That would drastically lower our medical costs.

Until then, we will continue to be ripped off, live unhealthy and be forced in to substandard health plans.
Yeah I agree with this. There is little in the way of competition to drive down cost. I blame hospitals a bit too. They just throw a huge # at insurance and take whatever insurance is willing to pay. We were at the pediatrician for a follow up appointment and they billed the insurance like $350 for 20 mins and it was nothing more than what a nurse can do. No idea what my insurance actually paid back, it was $20 out of my pocket and I'm fine with that. Offices have a staff just for coding....they make the system as complicated as possible and add as much overhead as they can to justify the costs....I dont think colorado care would change that at all.
 
Old 10-19-2016, 09:49 AM
 
Location: lakewood
572 posts, read 397,110 times
Reputation: 309
consumers just paying the copays (and not knowing the actual billed cost for each procedure billed for) is also part of the problem IMHO... as are the doctors and administrators who do not generally 'know' the amounts they are billing for either, IME
 
Old 10-21-2016, 12:44 AM
 
93 posts, read 53,185 times
Reputation: 92
"Now the deductable is $4000, copays are 20% after deductable. You cannot expand public spending on health care by over 13% a year, as the Affordable Care Act (ACA) has done, and reduce costs at the same time."

Yes, but why is that?
 
Old 10-21-2016, 12:47 AM
 
93 posts, read 53,185 times
Reputation: 92
"I wish they were proposing something a little more modest, sort of like Medicare, which has Part A (hospitalization) for everyone who paid into it, and Part B (major medical) for those who elect to pay a premium. Both of these Medicare programs have deductibles and co-pays as well. They are promising the stars and not asking for enough money to pay for the moon."

I am sure that they would have loved to have proposed something like expanding Medicare A/B to all, which would have been so simple, as you say, but that would require the political and legislative will in Colorado and nationally that is not there yet and will not be for many a decade. So I suspect that they had to go for this way.
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