Your thoughts on Colorado Care (Denver: purchase, bankrupt, income)

[asusual]

"As a small business owner I will vote no. Can't afford the additional taxes."

What's going to happen to you and your business if you need the care and cannot afford it?

[asusual]

"No complaints with the healthcare itself, but we've had to stop taking those annual road trips to pay for it."

This article may also help to answer denverian's question about why the costs are so insane in our health care system, including the ACA.


http://www.uta.edu/faculty/story/231...ndAndGreed.pdf

[Kar54]

Good article. I was in the industrial laundry business years ago. If we ordered a standard laundry cart for general use purposes, it might be $100. If we ordered for hospital supply use, the price was $500. It was exactly the same cart.

I was also in the medical device industry for 16 years. We manufactured disposable electro-surgical products. The device companies would hammer us for a unit price of $.50/each, sterilized and packaged and delivered ready for use. The hospital would easily charge $50.00+ a pop. As they say, nice margins if you can get them.

Gouging of "medically" deemed supplies and services has been going on for many, many years. From Tylenol to surgical blades to laundry carts.

Add fraudulent malpractice litigation and there's the frosting on the cake.

[Radicalrad]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

Are you sure about that? What about the ones now covered by Medicaid, Tri-Care, the VA, Medicare?

Do you have a cite for that? Frankly, this sounds to good to be true, and when something sounds like that, it often is too good to be true. Actually, no co-pays for primary is part of the ACA now. But no deductibles? I'm dubious.

No deductibles! For anyone. Universal coverage plans cannot have high deductibles or any deductibles. This is what is preventing people from getting needed care right now. Even with insurance they are not able to afford the high deductibles. The point is to do away with those- it is a feature of ColoradoCare.

As for co-pays. You are correct - currently the ACA has no co-pays for primary care visits. By statute, ColoradoCare cannot be worse than ACA. It is a condition for it to exist.

Medicaid is an income-qualifying program. No co-pays when you can't pay for Medicaid itself. Tri-care, VA and Medicare will have their existing care system (which has its own system of payment- that is why this isn't considered single-payer). There is an income exemption beyond which a Medicare enrollee would have to 10% of non-exempt income (I believe this is $60,000 for a couple but I can check). I think ColoradoCare will qualify and become the Medicare Advantage plan provider.

No copays for primary care. And no deductibles. Read details of plan at ColoradoCare.org

[Radicalrad]

Originally Posted by OhioToCO

I would like to look more into the financial side of this. I'd like to know how these numbers were arrived at.

When I compare my current cost of coverage (including what my employer pays for it, thanks to ACA you can now see it on your W2) and what we will pay combined (10% for me, 10% for my husband) it is only slightly more than total cost of our current family plan. I like my plan a lot - high deductible, HSA eligible, very good network and choice of doctors.
I feel that a few high earning families will not offset overall smaller amount raised from taxes, and the end result will be sub par care.

It's not so much the fact that I will be paying more that bothers me, it's the fact that some people might see reduction in the quality of care. Alternatively, the rates will rise, and since this exempt from TABOR, it can turn into a heavy burden. Certainly, two income families, like us, will shoulder a big chunk of it.

One of the reasons the health Co-op failed, despite being loved by people who were on it and despite meeting its mission to provide low-cost, quality healthcare to Coloradans, was because of change in funding from the Feds. This by way of saying that any new insurance company has to plan very judiciously because they do not have the rainy-day fund that insurance companies who have been in business for a long time do. The financial plan for CoCare is very detailed and was created by an economist by the name of Gerald Friedman out of UMass. There are also people at CoCare who would welcome any specific questions you have so you can feel more comfortable with the assumptions and numbers.

As you know, all insurance companies have been narrowing networks to control cost. So even with my employer sponsored HMO plan, I could see anyone but I would bear some additional burdens depending on the insurance company. With CoCare, you can see any physician. All physicians and same physicians. So quality of care shouldn't decline because of that. But there is also another reassurance. Clause 1332 of the ACA which made this "state innovation" a possibility clearly states that a state can forego the ACA plan if, and only if, they can create a plan that covers as many or more than ACA, for better or same quality as ACA, for lower or same cost as ACA.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by denverian

We have awesome healthcare in the U.S. The COST is the problem! I still don't understand what the problem is with the COST. Our son spent 3 days in ICU, one in a regular room, the the overall bill was around $40K Seriously??

People seem to not understand our health care system is burdened by excessive regulation and involvement of government. Hospitals pretty much have to have as much floor space for their bureaucrats to process paperwork and abide by rules as there is square footage for patients. In addition the system is also burdened by millions of freeloaders, some of whom are not even American citizens.

The leftist freeloaders pushing this garbage have no concept of mathematics or reality. As people are discovering with obamacare and in countries that have single payer or some form of socialized medicine like Canada or the UK, just because they say you have "coverage" doesn't mean treatment will be made available and that you'll get whatever you want. They always say you do to sell it, but it never works out that way. In fact we have recent history to go by with obamacare. Obama promised reduced costs, improved care and the uninsured would be covered. Now the costs are higher than ever with sky high premiums and deductibles, less care available and more uninsured than ever as people drop out and choose to pay the penalty instead and take their chances.

All this comes down to is a money and power grab by leftist utopian wackos in Colorado. It has nothing to do with improving care, increasing the amount of services, reducing costs via competition or any such thing. The end goal is an oligarchy like California. You'll have your welfare bums, losers and illegals at the bottom, the wage earners who are fleeced by so many bureaucrats and taxes they never get ahead and who are one short step away from the bottom and on the top you'll have some very high earning or wealthy people that control all the puppet strings who lived in gated enclaves. Colorado is headed that way and California is already there.

This also is going to send companies fleeing out of Colorado for better places and lower costs. Utopian leftists seem to think business owners are magic money trees but the cost of taxes and regulations have to be paid by someone.

[Teckeeee]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

People seem to not understand our health care system is burdened by excessive regulation and involvement of government. Hospitals pretty much have to have as much floor space for their bureaucrats to process paperwork and abide by rules as there is square footage for patients. In addition the system is also burdened by millions of freeloaders, some of whom are not even American citizens.

The leftist freeloaders pushing this garbage have no concept of mathematics or reality. As people are discovering with obamacare and in countries that have single payer or some form of socialized medicine like Canada or the UK, just because they say you have "coverage" doesn't mean treatment will be made available and that you'll get whatever you want. They always say you do to sell it, but it never works out that way. In fact we have recent history to go by with obamacare. Obama promised reduced costs, improved care and the uninsured would be covered. Now the costs are higher than ever with sky high premiums and deductibles, less care available and more uninsured than ever as people drop out and choose to pay the penalty instead and take their chances.

All this comes down to is a money and power grab by leftist utopian wackos in Colorado. It has nothing to do with improving care, increasing the amount of services, reducing costs via competition or any such thing. The end goal is an oligarchy like California. You'll have your welfare bums, losers and illegals at the bottom, the wage earners who are fleeced by so many bureaucrats and taxes they never get ahead and who are one short step away from the bottom and on the top you'll have some very high earning or wealthy people that control all the puppet strings who lived in gated enclaves. Colorado is headed that way and California is already there.

This also is going to send companies fleeing out of Colorado for better places and lower costs. Utopian leftists seem to think business owners are magic money trees but the cost of taxes and regulations have to be paid by someone.

Thank you for summing so much of my thoughts recently. My angry rhetoric comes off strong but you hit the nail on the head with that statement.

That sums up Kalifornia to a T

[asusual]

"The leftist freeloaders pushing this garbage have no concept of mathematics or reality."


If this is as you say, that the "leftist freeloaders" have no grasp of mathematics, than why are the US health care costs the highest in the world? In every other democratic nation, the health care costs are much lower and they manage to cover all their people at the same time. These all have the kinds of universal care like systems that ColoradoCare would be. If the folks pushing ColoradoCare "have no concept of mathematics or reality," then why does the mathematics or reality" prove otherwise?


Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries | PBS NewsHour


"You'll have your welfare bums, losers and illegals at the bottom, the wage earners who are fleeced by so many bureaucrats and taxes they never get ahead and who are one short step away from the bottom and on the top you'll have some very high earning or wealthy people that control all the puppet strings who lived in gated enclaves."

This sounds exactly like the oligarchic rule of the Koch Brothers and their kind that we have now, who have bought the democracy we once had, and deliberately pushed those folks to the bottom to destroy the middles to keep themselves in their "gated enclaves."

[asusual]

@Kar54:

Thanks much. Glad you liked the article. It covers the gouging that goes on now quite well. Single-payer systems have a much better and more efficient regulatory powers and could stop this gouging.

[asusual]

"I'm guessing you've never owned a business, have never had to take costs into account, or work a low wage job and are a net negative on the economy..."

I have owned a business, have had to take costs into account, and have also worked low wage jobs, and these some of the reasons why I favor ColoradoCare.