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I know we have had a few threads that have brought up our education system (or lack thereof). I came across this report card from last year that shows funding and economic trends from the last several years. I was simply looking for better colleges to send my child to, but I also have other children in schools here.
We have argued about the pros and cons of TABOR, and how we are being taxed to death. Some won't pay another dime for schools. We have many districts shuttering schools, and I'm curious where that money is going to?? But one must admit, after viewing these numbers, Colorado is in serious trouble. We have gone down in many areas in funding. This often leads to schools asking more money from parents who can't afford it. I'm not a fan of taxes, but not a fan of the way TABOR was constructed either. We are dead LAST in what we pay our teachers. We are strongly considering moving elsewhere just to get a better education for our kids.
I was born and raised here, even though I've moved around some to see other places. I'm disgusted with the direction some things are taking here. We are truly not looking toward bettering our future, instead we are only looking at lining our wallets (even though we need that as well.
Colorado's school funding crisis has been festering for over two decades. I will be the first to admit that schools often do not use their funding wisely--much of that can be blamed on the endless unfunded mandates foisted onto the educational system by the federal government--but Colorado has been especially derelict in properly funding its schools. I can say, without reservation, that every school that I attended in Colorado, from kindergarten to college, is now doing a poorer job of educating kids in necessary skills than they were when I attended them. That is truly a disaster for the long term social and economic viability of Colorado, and it is one of the reasons that I left Colorado.
TABOR is one piece of the school funding crisis--many Coloradans (maybe a majority of them) love public services, but they don't want to pay for them, and, in many ways, TABOR has made that dream come true for them. Another reason--and I know that I will be hated on for this one--is that many of the people transplanting into Colorado--especially in the rural areas where education funding is in the most trouble--are retirees (often affluent) who have no children in the Colorado educational system and don't care to pay anything for education--even though, someplace and somewhere, someone paid for THEIR education. So, thanks to their will, TABOR, and the lesser known Gallagher Amendment, Colorado has one of the lowest effective tax rates on residential property in the US, socks it to business and industry on property tax rates, but does not have enough property tax revenue base (the major local source for school funding) to properly fund education.
Common sense should tell people where that leads: an increasingly poorly educated resident workforce, a business climate that is increasingly hostile to employers--especially those with capital-intensive businesses and/or businesses that require a well educated workforce, and a place that--over time--sees a seriously shrinking tax base. One of the big ironies is that a lot of the people moving to Colorado to work got their education someplace else and will displace Coloradans who got a poorer education at Colorado educational institutions. Fine for those transplants, I guess, EXCEPT that THEIR kids will have it even worse than today's kids in Colorado when it comes to competing for what likely will be a shrinking number of jobs in the state.
The whole educational situation in Colorado is one of the worst kind of problems for a state to face because it took a couple of decades to get so screwed up, and there will be no cheap, easy, or short term fixes. Colorado has pretty much screwed itself educationally for the next couple of decades.
Jazz, I have to agree with you on most everything. I too attended schools here kindergarten through college. The schools didn't seem bad at all when I went through them. The teachers took time to teach. They don't even teach kids about the Civil War now.
You bring up essential services, I often cite the vote in Colorado Springs in 2010 when many essential services were cut because citizens didn't want a tax increase. These were major services, Police, Fire, street lights, park services. Every time a vote comes up for schools to get more money, that vote is defeated soundly. People here aren't interested in paying for schools. We have many people moving into the state, but tax revenues don't keep up with the demand for new schools. It surely can't explain why we are last in teacher salary.
We should want a strong education for our children, they are the workforce of tomorrow. I see people already complaining when they can't find a competent Doctor where I live, but they won't pay for educating the students.
I will do more research to find funding for Colorado Higher Education, but I don't expect it to be any better. When we are being surpassed by many southern states, Kentucky and Louisiana, Alabama is close on our heels, it doesn't bode well for the future of our state. Business' will look to relocate, and employees will want to know about education, cost of living is cheaper in the south, as well as a better education for our children. We better step up to the plate.
^Here is the real tragedy in all of this--one that people just don't want to see, especially those pimping Colorado so hard on this forum:
First, who is the best-equipped to live a decent, pleasant lifestyle in Colorado? Well, established, experienced, well-educated people--many of those likely coming from someplace else (where they got that good education and work experience). However, those are likely the people who would also most expect a decent education system to be there for their children. Hmmm . . . Then there are those retirees, again--often affluent. They often couldn't care less about a decent educational system because their kids are grown and likely someplace else. However, those people are going to rely on the local workforce for important things like their medical care, etc. that require a decently educated workforce from entry level to high-level professionals. Hmmm . . .
Now, if you take the quantity and character of the "I want to move to Colorado" posts on this forum as a gauge, what is the biggest group of people pining to move to Colorado? Young people with little work experience, often limited education, and limited skills. How well are they going to succeed in a state that has relatively small employment needs for them AND has what is rapidly becoming a second or third rate educational system? And, if that's not bad enough for them, how will THEIR kids have any kind of a chance? Hmmm . . .
Bottom line: a place that can not muster a decent educational system will eventually lose most of its attractiveness and quality of life, no matter how pretty the scenery is, or how nice the weather is, or how "slick" the developers' advertising is.
Oh, no doubt, there will be someone who posts about how good this or that individual school district is. I equate that to people extolling how great was that part of the Titanic that hadn't sunk yet.
I understand there are pros and cons everywhere one would think about moving. There is a pattern in this state regarding neglect of education, and it's getting to the point where it's going to become a major issue that Colorado can no longer overlook. Especially in trying to attract business and jobs, as job seekers look to move here.
I have located a link that shows higher-ed funding, I found the graph page most telling. Colorado ranks #49 in per capita funding for higher education.
How's the education system in Colorado these days?
I'm a high school chemistry teacher living in New Jersey. My wife and I were married in Colorado and found it to be a great place. We often consider moving there, Colorado ranks highly in key categories that suite our needs.
My question is about public schools. Here in New Jersey, we have very good schools, our kids are pretty smart, and our teacher's union is strong causing teachers to have pretty good salaries. Overall, a pretty good place to teach.
How are Colorado schools?
Are jobs available and stable?
Are the kids interested in learning? Many discipline problems?
Do parents back teachers and value education?
I know this is pretty general and can change from district to district. But just trying to get an idea of the overall climate. People in NJ value education highly, one of the reasons our schools are good, but also why we pay crazy high property taxes, I guess you get what you pay for.
It's been 17 minutes, I'm surprised one of the usual suspects hasn't already posted on what a mess Colorado's education system is; how you should move to Wyoming or Nebraska instead; etc.
You will hear all sorts of things, like how Colorado (along with about 20-30 other states) is 48th, 49th in education, yada, yada. Ignore it.
Your questions:
1. There isn't as much district to district variability in school funding in Colorado b/c the education funding system is less property tax dependent than in some other states. The state made a decision to try to equalize funding and do away with the "rich district/poor district" scenario. It's not perfect, but it helps.
2. Don't know, not a teacher, nor do I work for a school district.
From what I've seen out of New Jersey, it doesn't look like education is popular with the young and stupid. However, I would certainly believe that teachers are paid dramatically more there than they are here. Cost of living is substantially lower here. It depends on what you value.
The lower pay and lower COL combination works for some people but not for others. In general, people wanting a large house get a much better deal out here. People that want to live in a crappy little hole but have lots of money left over for other forms of immediate consumption usually do better in the high COL high income environment.
Out here teacher's unions may not get the same level of worship they receive in NJ. I almost automatically vote against anything they endorse. The union is tasked with increasing the pay and benefits for teachers, not with making a more efficient system for training children. There are some areas that desperately need unions, but that isn't one of them.
If you're willing to accept the lower pay to have your family out here where you can enjoy the lower costs and beautiful scenery, you're welcome to join us. Just don't expect anyone to be interested in having a New Jersey in the mountains.
The only question I think can really be answered is #1 and to an extent #3. My experience (not much, 10 years in HS education) tells me that the #1 factor concerning education is the involvement of the parents. Having taught in a private school, a low income school, and an average income school, kids are kids everywhere. Colorado, or any other state, does not have the market on smart and motivated kids, or unmotivated jerks. That will change by location/district.
Jobs are out there, but difficult depending on your certification. Science jobs are typically harder for schools to fill, but you may not be able to teach chemistry- you may have to teach biology or physics.
Overall, our salaries are much lower than New Jersey. Doing a quick google search told me that the average salary in NJ in Irvington (no clue where that is) is $62,000. Here in CO the average salary is closer to $40,000. The unions are pretty much (overall) nonexistent, but there are a couple districts here and there that have a good district centered union-like organization.
Very frankly, I have told my husband that as his wife in a public school, and his two children in public schools, we're in the wrong state for three quarters of our family. While some people love how as a state we do fairly well test wise with our limited funding, the state essentially has required schools to divert funding to provide standardized testing- my school, for example, has terrible resources for technology. The state is requiring that our new testing be done on the computer, yet the majority of our desktops take several minutes to boot up, and when we do testing, no other teacher is able to use any computer/laptop/chromebook/iPad for research, writing, "21st Century Skills" etc. I wouldn't mind that, as I firmly believe technology does not measurably impact a good teacher's effectiveness, yet my "teacher effectiveness rubric" grades me in part for using technology in my classroom- something I (and many of my students who must beg their mom/dad/sibling to get off of Facebook/Twitter/FarmVille/fillintheblank so they could do homework) do not have even access to, partly because the state is requiring our school to divert our resources for standardized testing.
All this complaining, though, is echoed throughout the nation, and is not centered in Colorado or even my specific district. There are other districts that have their own problems, and the grass is not always greener on the other side.
Sorry I rambled/ranted. My own advice would be for you to take stock of what frustrates you/makes you happy in NJ. If you come home relatively happy every day and find extreme joy teaching in NJ, you need to determine if the frustrations you may encounter as a teacher here outweigh the lifestyle changes you desire.
It's been 17 minutes, I'm surprised one of the usual suspects hasn't already posted on what a mess Colorado's education system is; how you should move to Wyoming or Nebraska instead; etc.
You will hear all sorts of things, like how Colorado (along with about 20-30 other states) is 48th, 49th in education, yada, yada. Ignore it.
Your questions:
1. There isn't as much district to district variability in school funding in Colorado b/c the education funding system is less property tax dependent than in some other states. The state made a decision to try to equalize funding and do away with the "rich district/poor district" scenario. It's not perfect, but it helps.
2. Don't know, not a teacher, nor do I work for a school district.
3. For the most part, yes. For the most part, no.
4. For the most part, yes.
Yeah, well the truth hurts. No amount of bashing me will change the reality that Colorado's long-term school funding is a festering mess, and it already is and will be negatively affecting education in the state. Unlike the responder above, I have a lot of familiarity with Colorado school funding, I know a lot of present and former teachers, and I was around Colorado for long enough to see what the trends in the educational system are. I felt strongly enough about Colorado's long-term fiscal instability in public finance (and I saw it from the inside, up close and personal), including education, that it was a major motivator for me to relocate out of my native state. That should tell you something.
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How's the education system in Colorado these days?
