Looking to move family to Winter Park / Fraser Valley

[NW Crow]

For comments about vacation rentals, you could do a word search here, in general or keying in on poster "sunspirit", who has been in that business a long time and has commented on it. If he (or others) don't respond in this thread.


My understanding is that the vast majority of properties in Winter Park are vacation used. I dunno how many try to rent and how successful they are but I'd definitely research the local market carefully before trying it.
Quality expectations, rental prices, # of days / weeks rented on average, management costs (if used), cleaning costs, damages, etc.

[CosmicWizard]

Originally Posted by MHarbaugh

Thanks for that input. Are you saying that you think our costs in CO would be higher than PA? I was afraid of that. However, we do happen to live in a fairly expensive area in PA (Bucks County) and hopefully it is not as extreme as you suggested.

Bucks county - PA is a bit expensive, but your monthly housing costs in Colorado vacation country will be even higher, especially as a renter compared to being an owner, or even as a mortgage payer.

Example: While I don't live in CO vacation country, I do live in Colorado. Two years ago I was renting a condo identical to the one I now own. As a renter, my monthly housing costs ( rent and utilities ) was approx $1000. Now, as an owner ( no mortgage ) of an identical condo, completely remodeled and updated, my monthly housing costs are less than $500 ( HOA fee, taxes, Insurance, & utilities ). Even IF I was paying a mortgage, my monthly costs would still be less than my costs as a renter. Unless you have money to burn, or you have an addiction to mobility, owning or paying a mortgage is just about always less costly than renting.

[MHarbaugh]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Let's talk real dollars instead of percentages. What's the budget and what do you want for it?

Regarding vacation rentals, the question becomes leverage. What makes sense today might not tomorrow if the market shifts slightly and you are over leveraged.

Can you be more specific regarding the leverage you mentioned?

I would love to figure out if this makes sense for another source of income as I do have some cash for a down payment on a condo. If i were to buy a 200,000 condo with 50k down, i would have a 150K mortgage. to cover plus expenses, etc.

How would you suggest I do market research to figure out what the market is like in the area?

[MHarbaugh]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

Bucks county - PA is a bit expensive, but your monthly housing costs in Colorado vacation country will be even higher, especially as a renter compared to being an owner, or even as a mortgage payer.

Example: While I don't live in CO vacation country, I do live in Colorado. Two years ago I was renting a condo identical to the one I now own. As a renter, my monthly housing costs ( rent and utilities ) was approx $1000. Now, as an owner ( no mortgage ) of an identical condo, completely remodeled and updated, my monthly housing costs are less than $500 ( HOA fee, taxes, Insurance, & utilities ). Even IF I was paying a mortgage, my monthly costs would still be less than my costs as a renter. Unless you have money to burn, or you have an addiction to mobility, owning or paying a mortgage is just about always less costly than renting.

Ok, Thanks.
I understand what you mean now. I would much rather own/mortgage than rent...any day. If I were to put all of my current equity (if I can sell my current home) plus additional down payment I could greatly reduce my monthly costs. This would help uwto get on our feet in a new area.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I always wanted to get involved in vacation rentals. I would love to find a way to figure out if this would be lucrative enough in the area to pick something up. Although this would be tying up most of my available capital it may give me a chance to spin off some income (additional to regular employment) while having a fairly secure investment (at least it seems like it would be a good option).

[brown_dog_us]

I think there is more money in managing other people's vacation rentals, and maybe picking up an incredible bargain every once in awhile.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by MHarbaugh

Can you be more specific regarding the leverage you mentioned?

I would love to figure out if this makes sense for another source of income as I do have some cash for a down payment on a condo. If i were to buy a 200,000 condo with 50k down, i would have a 150K mortgage. to cover plus expenses, etc.

How would you suggest I do market research to figure out what the market is like in the area?

You should be able to find out what current rental rates are. I would speak with a realtor in the area who handles vacation rentals. Regarding leverage, if you find that the deal barely makes sense today after you factor HOAs, vacancies, and maintenance, it will leave you upside down if the market shifts at all. What I'm trying to say is be conservative.

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

Originally Posted by MHarbaugh

Can you be more specific regarding the leverage you mentioned?

I would love to figure out if this makes sense for another source of income as I do have some cash for a down payment on a condo. If i were to buy a 200,000 condo with 50k down, i would have a 150K mortgage. to cover plus expenses, etc.

How would you suggest I do market research to figure out what the market is like in the area?

If you are talking rental rates, it's really easy (but time consuming) to look on VRBO and see what comparable properties are renting for. That's what we did in trying to figure out how much to charge for our vacation rental house in Hawaii.

In the WP area they will have seasonal rates. Interesting to see what they charge in high season.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by MHarbaugh

.. Are you saying that you think our costs in CO would be higher than PA? Yes, very likely higher
Does anyone have thoughts about vacation rentals (condos, etc.) in a mountain resort town such as Winter Park?Yes... do as below... Manage OTHER people's vacation rentals (5% cap rates if you are lucky) and put your own money to better work elsewhere (10- 15% cap rates)

Does anyone have experience with ROI / Cash Flow with condo rentals in an area like this? Sure... many people have the data... you will find FT rental is about the same return (not great) but much less to manage / damage.

Originally Posted by brown_dog_us

I think there is more money in managing other people's vacation rentals, and maybe picking up an incredible bargain every once in awhile.

Do this ^^^^ (Create a Property management company (after working for a few))

Find a great return RE investment property in a non income tax state(TN, TX, FL can be nice to visit (tax deductible) in winter) (hold it in a seperate LLC ~ $350 to establish) and have THAT RE spin off your cash flows so you can live in paradise (albeit a freezing paradise).

"You might consider looking for estate / property management jobs with a live-in arrangement / benefit. Between you and your wife you have a lot of the useful experience (including possibly help with kids). Maybe try an ad in local paper or Craigslist... when you are ready to go. It may not be the full ride needed but it could supplement and maybe get you nicer housing than otherwise. I met a couple that were caretakers for a mountain property. When the owners visited the caretakers stayed with friends. 80-90% of the year it was sorta theirs. More common to just have a separate area but there are some good gigs out there. Most probably get filled without advertising. But you can try to be visible for the chance. The one place I know of where these do get advertised is here http://www.caretaker.org/"

definitely do this! I know of camps / retreat centers in the area that have FT staff. We have done this last yr on our RTW (staffed camps off season / did repairs and service work for free room and board). As a family we lived for $300 / month at a camp in Canadian Gulf Islands, during off season.

One of my bosses took a caretaker job for a rich family (private Island). Free place to stay for 25 yrs, and saw his boss a couple times / yr at most. My SIL has done 37 yrs as 'house sitter' for luxury props in Hawaii (no extra lodging required) Tough as a family.


You have enough talent and skills to make this happen, but I would challenge you to think LT on your investment / earning strategy. Replace your income ASAP with a passive investment RE (real estate) stream, and live happily ever after. No need to save for retirement, if you have an inflation protected income stream. I doubt that investment should be in Frasier Valley / or even in CO. A spreadsheet will demonstrate the facts. No emotion needed.