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Old 07-14-2017, 10:46 AM
 
946 posts, read 509,550 times
Reputation: 2074

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To the Conservatives: You might have a point that your guy won... But liberals have a point that it might be a good idea for constituents to get a better idea of exactly how Gardner intends to vote because it isn't as if the GOP is united on this issue at the moment. Does he stand with the freedom caucus who want a more conservative bill? Does he stand with Trump who supports the bill as is? Or is he more of a Kasich/Collins/Murkowski type who would like a more moderate bill? He needs to pick a side something that he has been reluctant to do. Also some of your rhetoric is a real turn off to people like me who are swing voters. It might be a good idea to tone down the name calling, especially in a state that seems to be trending left.

To the Liberals: While I agree that Gardner should probably come out and make a public statement on exactly where he stands I'm not sure that town halls are really necessary. It's abundantly clear that Gardner knows that he lives in a swing state and towing the Trumpist line isn't terribly popular. That is exactly why he hasn't made public his intents. He doesn't need to go to a town hall to know that he is in between a rock and a hard place you can be sure his team has let him know just exactly the predicament he is in. He either has to take a hit with party leadership or a hit with his incumbents. It's essentially a gamble... If Trumpcare turns out great then by the time he is up for reelection his voters will have moved on and he will have retained standing in his party but if Trumpcare turns out to be unpopular in CO then he will lose reelection and his rising star will fall. In the meantime complaining about him not doing specific things is a bit silly and only energizes the GOP base as evidenced in this thread.

To Gardner: Grow some ****ing balls and pick a side. Decide if you believe in this bill or not.
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Old 07-14-2017, 10:49 AM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,690 posts, read 4,309,632 times
Reputation: 10252
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
Way to lay the smack down! Welcome to the Colorado subforums! Join me in the P&OC sub sometime. A bunch of crybabies who've flipped their wigs over there. Waa! Not my Pwesident!



Yup.



Agree. Some poster made some crack about folks in Yuma having so many folks on Medicaid.

I don't know exactly what they meant by that. I do know that folks from Yuma, Akron, Wray, Julesburg aka Sedgewick County, Otis, etc. are salt of the earth people and y'all ought to stand and salute when your reference them.



Here's four fallacies of liberal claims...

Helping the poor... democrats rave about helping the poor yet limit their alternatives to failing public schools, raise food prices with farm subsidies, and burden entry level businesses with red tape.

Peace... Democrats advocate peace, yet are silent when a war-mongering Democrat is in office, boasting a poor track record in Afghanistan, Iraq Libya Syria, Vietnam...

Pro Choice... Democrats are pro Choice, unless it's choosing what school your child attends or choosing what types of guns to purchase, or choosing your healthcare plan.


Civil Liberties... Democrats are supposed to be good on civil liberties, yet too often favor abuses like NSA spying, NDAA, and Obama's war on whistleblowers.

Oh, and no Democrats, you don't get to call Leaking from around the Whitehouse whistleblowing, nor do you get to call whistleblowers that so happen to be Republicans Collusionists.

And to be honest, we don't give a damn who uses what bathroom, who takes whom into their bedroom, etc.

We care about having a real job and we want our neighbors, if they're willing and able, to have a decent job too.

We're sick of the DNC slow-walking our government and elected Whitehouse administration, the criminal acts of your Obama administration, "Intelligence" politicized Agency, Main Stream fake stream lame stream media, your Hollywood and your useless academia who would rather see Trump and Gardner fail than our Country succeed.



Maybe if we stopped funding international abortions, ended corruption in healthcare, stopped providing breast augmentation for transgendered folks in male prisons and such as like, we could get affordable healthcare for THOSE who want and/or need it.



We should just straight up repeal. Then replace with Trump Care. Then after a few months, we can say, " we had to pass the bill so we can see what's in it." Then after 7.5 years, we can say, "Well it's still not perfect! Y'all can work on it. It's gonna take some time."

Oh!

And another lie perpetuated by y'all! Medicaid will not be "done away with". It will just grow slightly more slowly than those whacko libs in D.C. fantasized about.
With all due respect, Mr. Double Secret Dog, you are wrong on your last point. I have been following the healthcare bill as if my life depended upon it which as an American with a disability, it does. Without Medicaid, I have no access to medical care, nor do many of my friends who are also disabled. I did a quick Google search on the subject just now, and here's a sampling of what I found:

Quote:
What happens to people on Medicaid?

If you are among the more than 14 million Americans who gained eligibility through the ACA, you could still lose it. Enhanced federal funding for the low-income adults who became newly qualified would be phased out, ending after 2024.

Federal support for traditional Medicaid would also still be scaled back. States, which pay a portion of the cost of Medicaid, would have to find new funding or cut the program through restricting enrollment, curbing benefits, reducing payments to health care providers or finding efficiencies.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...you/475795001/

Quote:
Nearly 15 million Americans would lose their Medicaid coverage by 2026 under the Senate bill, according to the CBO. Verma sought to minimize that outlook, saying states could use the stabilization funding to heavily subsidize private coverage for these Americans — even though the size of the fund does not come close to the bill’s $772 billion in cuts to the program over the next decade.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...fbf_story.html

Quote:
The proposed cuts to Medicaid would start in 2021 as the Obamacare expansion, which covered people earning up to 138 percent of the poverty level, begins to wind down. Deeper cuts go into effect in 2025 because of a change to the funding formula to the inflation rate, which rises much slower than the cost of health care, which will likely result in less coverage. The Congressional Budget Office, which analyzes Congressional legislation, estimated that the bill would create more than $700 billion worth of cuts to the program over 10 years and 15 million people would lose access to the program.
Changes in Senate Health Care Bill Coming But Medicaid Cuts Remain - NBC News

Please do not accuse me of "perpetuating lies" when you yourself have obviously not done the research to back up your words. It is criminal for ANYONE to sit back and comfortably assume that millions of Americans will not lose their healthcare when that is exactly what is going to happen under the republican plan as it is now proposed.

It's no wonder Cory Gardner is in hiding. What man wants to stand up at the podium and tell the people of the state of Colorado that millions of people in Colorado and the rest of the US are slated to die early deaths for lack of medical care?

I will ask you the same question I asked freewest: Why do you want to kill Colorado Rambler and many of her friends? I am a real person on the other side of the computer screen from you. I breathe, I feel pain, I feel sorrow and I feel joy. What is it that you have against me and the millions of other Americans who share my same plight? Why do you want to kill people in the name of party politics? I am being very blunt here and very honest. I (and every other disabled Coloradan) deserves the courtesy of a well thought out and INFORMED reply.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: The 719
14,459 posts, read 22,290,695 times
Reputation: 13781
Oh excuse me Nancy Pelosi.

I think liberals lie when they say things were awful before Obamacare and he made it better.

Some people need medicade and they should have it. I cannot afford to pay for half of y'all to be on medicade.

Obama threw a few chocolates around onto the floor and a few people got addicted. Meanwhile, the debt doubled in 8 years.

Eat more kale, celery, drink more water, take more walks have a positive attitude and don't get old.

My mom and dad didn't follow that advice.

My dad pays 3675.00/mo to live in a pretty nice assisted living facility and is on medicare with a Humana supplement. My mom got about 7 months of Medicaid until she died a month and a half ago so she could live with my dad. She was 82, was blind due to macular degeneration, a removed lung lobe due to cancer in 05, and had a cancerous tumor on her bile duct which finally took her out. So instead of them both paying about 4500/mo for a one bedroom place at the ALF, my dad paid 2900 and my mom paid all of her SS minus 100.00 to live there.

Medicaid saved her about 1000.00/ month.

Big whoop.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
20,713 posts, read 11,501,424 times
Reputation: 31248
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
Oh excuse me Nancy Pelosi.

I think liberals lie when they say things were awful before Obamacare and he made it better.

Some people need medicade and they should have it. I cannot afford to pay for half of y'all to be on medicade.

Obama threw a few chocolates around onto the floor and a few people got addicted. Meanwhile, the debt doubled in 8 years.

Eat more kale, celery, drink more water, take more walks have a positive attitude and don't get old.

My mom and dad didn't follow that advice.

My dad pays 3675.00/mo to live in a pretty nice assisted living facility and is on medicare with a Humana supplement. My mom got about 7 months of Medicaid until she died a month and a half ago so she could live with my dad. She was 82, was blind due to macular degeneration, a removed lung lobe due to cancer in 05, and had a cancerous tumor on her bile duct which finally took her out. So instead of them both paying about 4500/mo for a one bedroom place at the ALF, my dad paid 2900 and my mom paid all of her SS minus 100.00 to live there.

Medicaid saved her about 1000.00/ month.

Big whoop.
I see. It doesn't affect your family personally so liberals must be lying?
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:33 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,690 posts, read 4,309,632 times
Reputation: 10252
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
Oh excuse me Nancy Pelosi.

I think liberals lie when they say things were awful before Obamacare and he made it better.

Some people need medicade and they should have it. I cannot afford to pay for half of y'all to be on medicade.

Obama threw a few chocolates around onto the floor and a few people got addicted. Meanwhile, the debt doubled in 8 years.

Eat more kale, celery, drink more water, take more walks have a positive attitude and don't get old.

My mom and dad didn't follow that advice.

My dad pays 3675.00/mo to live in a pretty nice assisted living facility and is on medicare with a Humana supplement. My mom got about 7 months of Medicaid until she died a month and a half ago so she could live with my dad. She was 82, was blind due to macular degeneration, a removed lung lobe due to cancer in 05, and had a cancerous tumor on her bile duct which finally took her out. So instead of them both paying about 4500/mo for a one bedroom place at the ALF, my dad paid 2900 and my mom paid all of her SS minus 100.00 to live there.

Medicaid saved her about 1000.00/ month.

Big whoop.
Calling me "Nancy Pelosi" is about the equivalent of a first grader shouting "Yer mama wears combat boots!" It does NOT further your argument. $1000.00 a month may be peanuts to you, but that's a lot of money to me. If $1,000 is such a paltry sum, why are you complaining about having to "pay for half of y'all to be on medicade (sic)"? The assisted living outfit in Colorado Springs took every last penny of my Dad's army retirement check. He got NO help from medicaid. You have my deepest sympathies. NOT. You are also obviously confusing medicaid with medicare which are two different critters.

According to Investopedia, Medicare constitutes 14% of the $3 trillion federal budget, and Medicaid accounts for 9%.

The US tax code is endlessly complicated, but for the sake of simplicity, let's say that you would save 9% (much less if your income is under 250 K/year) on your taxes if medicaid were eliminated. I'm betting that this 9% would come to less than your big whoop $1,000 per YEAR unless you are fairly well to do.

And who is "half of y'all," anyhow? Please do tell. I worked and paid my taxes from the age of 16 on for 40 years until I became disabled in my late fifties due to a catastrophic event that no one could have foreseen. I ended up going through all my savings just trying to pay medical bills and put a little food on my table. Medicaid didn't help me then. It most certainly helps me now and I would have no medical care at all without it. Before you get all uppity about "half of ya'll," what happened to me could happen to anyone, including you. Your ignorance of healthcare in Colorado and the US in general, plus your hostility to those not as fortunate as you are duly noted.
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,884 posts, read 6,460,372 times
Reputation: 7336
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
Oh excuse me Nancy Pelosi.

I think liberals lie when they say things were awful before Obamacare and he made it better.

Some people need medicade and they should have it. I cannot afford to pay for half of y'all to be on medicade.

Obama threw a few chocolates around onto the floor and a few people got addicted. Meanwhile, the debt doubled in 8 years.

Eat more kale, celery, drink more water, take more walks have a positive attitude and don't get old.

My mom and dad didn't follow that advice.

My dad pays 3675.00/mo to live in a pretty nice assisted living facility and is on medicare with a Humana supplement. My mom got about 7 months of Medicaid until she died a month and a half ago so she could live with my dad. She was 82, was blind due to macular degeneration, a removed lung lobe due to cancer in 05, and had a cancerous tumor on her bile duct which finally took her out. So instead of them both paying about 4500/mo for a one bedroom place at the ALF, my dad paid 2900 and my mom paid all of her SS minus 100.00 to live there.

Medicaid saved her about 1000.00/ month.

Big whoop.
People got addicted to having access to life saving healthcare? Sounds terrible.
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Old 07-14-2017, 01:18 PM
 
Location: The 719
14,459 posts, read 22,290,695 times
Reputation: 13781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post

I will ask you the same question I asked freewest: Why do you want to kill Colorado Rambler and many of her friends? I am a real person on the other side of the computer screen from you. I breathe, I feel pain, I feel sorrow and I feel joy. What is it that you have against me and the millions of other Americans who share my same plight? Why do you want to kill people in the name of party politics? I am being very blunt here and very honest. I (and every other disabled Coloradan) deserves the courtesy of a well thought out and INFORMED reply.
Why am I killing Colorado Rambler?

That's where you get your Nancy Pelosi tag. Would you rather I call you Chuck Schumer or Pocahontas?

Anyway, as I said my mom died a month and a half ago.

Thanks for the condolences.

Don't tell me I don't know the difference between Medicaid and medicare.

I've been my parents' primarily caregiver for over 5 years now.

My reference to the Big Whoop $1000.00 was in reference to the fact my dad is paying still 3675.00 per month to live in this place, just 1000.00 less than they paid when my mom was still alive.

Why don't you liberal folks just take your thread back?

I'm outta here.
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Old 07-14-2017, 01:45 PM
 
5,306 posts, read 7,137,631 times
Reputation: 5030
America is one of the only if not the only first-world country where people go bankrupt over medical bills, and our coverage is worse than nearly all if not all of these other countries as well, and the per-person cost of our healthcare is more than most of those other countries too. We could do a MUCH better job in taking care of our poor, sick, elderly and disabled and keeping our healthy well without spending more money if that were sincerely a priority of our government. But that would require making the medical environment less capitalist and more centralized, which is the exact direction that a lot of our politicians and public consider as unAmerican.

Last edited by otowi; 07-14-2017 at 02:58 PM..
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Old 07-14-2017, 02:59 PM
 
147 posts, read 187,265 times
Reputation: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
... I will ask you the same question I asked freewest: Why do you want to kill Colorado Rambler and many of her friends?
This is why I did not respond. A ridiculous and juvenile assertion. Hyperlinking and quoting far left wing media outlets is your idea of "research"? There are intelligent solutions to our health insurance problems. But as long as this kind of ignorant, hysterical demonizing takes place, we will not get there. Like McGowdog, I'm outta here.
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Old 07-14-2017, 03:10 PM
 
5,306 posts, read 7,137,631 times
Reputation: 5030
Quote:
Originally Posted by freewest View Post
Hyperlinking and quoting far left wing media outlets is your idea of "research"?
IMHO, what should actually happen here is that instead of attacking a source of information in a way that is meaningless except from revealing one's personal opinions and politics, if one is interested in truth one should look at the information provided and judge it on its own merits or lack thereof. While 'fake news' is a legitimate problem, the supposition that actual usable and verifiable information is not provided by media outlets that are only very arguably "far left wing" or on the other side "far right wing" is simply irresponsible, lazy, and incorrect. This division of news source by right vs. left is a dangerous thing happening in this country today.
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