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Old 07-14-2017, 04:41 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN
417 posts, read 259,124 times
Reputation: 884

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
I will ask you the same question I asked freewest: Why do you want to kill Colorado Rambler and many of her friends?
The sky is not falling...millions are not gonna die...this chicken little fear-mongering is ridiculous

This thread either needs to move to the political forum or get closed
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:51 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,703 posts, read 4,343,073 times
Reputation: 10302
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsBall View Post
The sky is not falling...millions are not gonna die...this chicken little fear-mongering is ridiculous

This thread either needs to move to the political forum or get closed
Please tell me what happens when you deprive 15 million Americans or more of their healthcare - especially when these Americans are the disabled, the low income elderly, and children from working class and other low income families.

Take away my medical care and I assure you that I will die. My medications are quite expensive and there's no way I can afford to cover them on my own. Healthcare in rural Colorado is already in a pretty grim state. Take away people's access to health care and it will be catastrophic.

Too many make the assumption that other people will be just fine if denied medical care. Would you want to be told that you can never see a doctor again or get prescription coverage for the rest of your life - have a nice day? If a person is diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and cannot get medical care, how long do you think that person will live? If a child is born with a severe birth defect and not allowed medical care, how long do you think that child will live?

This is simple cause and effect - not chicken little, not liberal "lies."

You and those who share your attitude are the ones who are being ridiculous - criminally so. What agency or charity do you assume is going to come to our rescue? Charities are already stretched to the breaking point as it is. When I still lived in Colorado Springs and did not have medicaid, the wait-list at the County low-income medical clinic was TWO YEARS long! And even when you got to the top of the list, the care received there was woefully inadequate.

Again, please explain how seriously ill people without access to medical care will be able to survive and what the quality of their foreshortened lives will be like. Please give non-partisan cites to back up your words - not your own uniformed, Polly Anna style opinions.

You don't wish to hear what's really going on in this country, so you want the thread closed so your delicate sensibilities will not be offended. Well, I imagine that you will get your wish because I stood up and spoke out the truth about what is really happening here. Sorry about that, but I'm not going to play nicey-nice when people's lives are at risk. This thread may get closed, but fortunately, we still have other ways of speaking out - at least for now.
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:26 AM
 
Location: The 719
14,507 posts, read 22,370,207 times
Reputation: 13812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
Calling me "Nancy Pelosi" is about the equivalent of a first grader shouting "Yer mama wears combat boots!"

And who is "half of y'all," anyhow? Please do tell. Your ignorance of healthcare in Colorado and the US in general, plus your hostility to those not as fortunate as you are duly noted.

Oh excuse my exaggeration, it's only 43% in Pueblo County this year and counting.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.chief...60ec3.amp.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Dog, if 41% of Pueblo County citizens are eligible for Medicaid support, even if working, it tells us the middle class is disappearing; which we've seen nationwide for some time. We can't cut these people loose from their health care lifeline and dump them back into the Emergency Rooms at Parkview or St Mary-Corwin Hospitals. We just can't, these are OUR neighbors and families.

The situation of people on Medicaid is analogous to those minimum wage workers at WalMart who make so little money that they are eligible for food stamps, aka the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP).

The global economy, anti-union propaganda and the power of billionaires to pull strings in our federal and state legislatures leaves tens of millions of citizens with their faces being ground into the dirt beneath a heartless capitalist boot.

That so many people are eligible for these programs highlights the growing issue of income inequality in our nation. Essentially, our SNAP and Medicaid tax dollars subsidize WalMart and other corporations, neither of which want us to see a doctor unless we pay for it our of our minimum wage jobs. Fat chance of that being affordable. The answer isn't "throw the bums out" and make them sink or swim because a ton of them will drown. We're better people than that, or so I've always thought; if we aren't then we must stop calling ourselves a christian nation.

If we let politicians play their usual divide and conquer games they will have us at each other's throats as their rich owners laugh all the way to the bank. This game has been going on for generations; black vs white, male vs female, Irish vs Chinese, young vs old, it's all been done in the past and very deliberately.

Cory Gardner is in the bag for the wealthy, don't let him get away with impoverishing our people even more. We need to join forces and beat on the political class, and the wealthy takers who already have most of the pie, to fulfill our destiny of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
41% in 2015-2016 and 43+% in 2017.

So what's the solution? Full on communism? That's always worked.

Taking food stamps from poor folks is easy. Taking money from Soros ought to be a piece of cake.

Does anyone realize how many babies of illegal aliens were born in St Mary-Corwin last year?

Last edited by McGowdog; 07-15-2017 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:11 AM
 
20,858 posts, read 39,100,793 times
Reputation: 19120
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
Oh excuse my exaggeration, it's only 43% in Pueblo County this year and counting.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.chief...60ec3.amp.html
Dog, if 41% of Pueblo County citizens are eligible for Medicaid support, even if working, it tells us the middle class is disappearing; which we've seen nationwide for some time. We can't cut these people loose from their health care lifeline and dump them back into the Emergency Rooms at Parkview or St Mary-Corwin Hospitals. We just can't, these are OUR neighbors and families.

The situation of people on Medicaid is analogous to those minimum wage workers at WalMart who make so little money that they are eligible for food stamps, aka the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP).

The global economy, anti-union propaganda and the power of billionaires to pull strings in our federal and state legislatures leaves tens of millions of citizens with their faces being ground into the dirt beneath a heartless capitalist boot.

That so many people are eligible for these programs highlights the growing issue of income inequality in our nation. Essentially, our SNAP and Medicaid tax dollars subsidize WalMart and other corporations, neither of which want us to see a doctor unless we pay for it our of our minimum wage jobs. Fat chance of that being affordable. The answer isn't "throw the bums out" and make them sink or swim because a ton of them will drown. We're better people than that, or so I've always thought, and if we aren't then we must stop calling ourselves a christian nation.

If we let politicians play their usual divide and conquer games they will have us at each other's throats as their rich owners laugh all the way to the bank. This game has gone on for generations; black vs white, male vs female, Irish vs Chinese, young vs old, it's all been done in the past, it's done now, and it's a very deliberate tactic.

Cory Gardner is in the bag for the wealthy, don't let him get away with impoverishing our people even more. We need to join forces and beat on the political class, and the wealthy takers who already have most of the pie, to fulfill our destiny of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 07-15-2017 at 11:24 AM..
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Old 07-15-2017, 12:45 PM
 
147 posts, read 187,809 times
Reputation: 291
The issue with health insurance is firmly rooted in America's overall domestic problems, e.g., anemic economy, trade deficits, uncontrolled immigration, crazy tax code, massive debt, etc. They cannot be separated. So how about some 5th grade arithmetic?

Prior to Obamacare, there were between 20 and 40 million people without health insurance, depending on whose numbers you believed. Not without health care, without health insurance. That is around 10% of the population. Let's take the highest number of 40,000,000. In 2016, we had a $500 billion trade deficit. That's $500,000,000,000. If that deficit were to come into balance, you know, like in a fair trade economy, that would produce $125 billion in tax revenues (taxed at 25%). That's over $3000 dollars for every one of the 40 million uninsured. That money could have bought them a nice health insurance policy (before Obamacare) directly from Uncle Samantha. I would have thought Dems would like that. Or, the more preferrable scenario, more businesses would have been able to offer group plans. Then there is the anemic 2% economy. Get that up to 6% and you also have more businesses being able to offer a group health policy. Then there's the crazy tax code............... oh, nevermind. No amount of reality is going to bring this emotionally driven debate into perspective.

Mike - I don't get you. You said "our SNAP and Medicaid tax dollars subsidize WalMart and other corporations". But that is exactly what a socialized health care system does. Do you not know this?
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:25 PM
 
20,858 posts, read 39,100,793 times
Reputation: 19120
Taxes should be high enough to support Medicare For All, period, and do away with CHIP, Medicaid, Veterans Administration, Champus, Tri-Care and heaven only knows how many other federal and state programs that are mere artificial distinctions between various segments of the health care landscape (moonscape?). For profit insurers can be in business to sell MediGAP and cadillac plans. The current "system" is anything but a system; it's a buffet of crap with stunning overhead and redundancy.

If we ever get to universal single payer it won't matter that this amounts to subsidizing the corporate world since it will be equal across the board, one for all, all for one. Right now many "good" responsible firms still provide health care to employees but struggle at a cost disadvantage versus "lousy" corporations who don't provide health care, which causes taxpayers to subsidize the lousy ones via tax dollars for SNAP, Medicaid, CHIP, etc.

Good corporations thus are at a disadvantage versus the WalMarts and others who won't cover their people. The current mess further hurts our good corporations who must compete in a global economy against the G-20 nations who DO provide health care to people and whose corporations don't have to pay for health care costs and add that to the price of their goods and services. Medicare For All should improve our competitive status and ease the negative trade balance, but we'll never eliminate that as long as Chinese workers make $2-3 per hour.

I don't consider Medicare For All to be "socialized" medicine. IIRC, classic "socialism" means government ownership of the means of production. England has socialized medicine, their government OWNS the hospitals and the doctors are government employees. NO ONE is proposing that our federal government take over and own the hospitals and that our doctors and nurses become federal employees.

All that being said, where the hell is the coward Cory Gardner and why isn't he facing his voters?
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 07-15-2017 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:54 PM
 
2,624 posts, read 4,802,597 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Opposition to the ACA, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, indeed the entire safety net, is coming from the top 1% who've so stacked the deck in their favor that increasingly all that's left for people are a few crumbs.
The opposition to the disaster of Obamacare, aka "the Unaffordable Care Act", is coming from the middle class who have had their premiums and deductibles greatly increase while getting less coverage.

"It's a catastrophic policy as far as I'm concerned," said Solesky, 55, noting her Obamacare policy costs twice as much as her mortgage. "Medical insurance was meant to keep medical expenses from driving you in financial ruin, not for the medical insurance to drive you in financial ruin."

Is Obamacare really affordable? Not for the middle class. - Nov. 4, 2016

"As if rising premiums which increased by an average of 35.2 percent in Tennessee this year weren't already hard enough, skyrocketing deductibles have rendered many plans "all but useless," according to a recent report in The New York Times."

High deductibles make insurance via ACA unusable

The only good things about Obamacare are that it was partly responsible for the destruction of the Democrat party and helped the election of President Trump!

"But one number almost always goes unheard: more than 1,030 seats.

That's the number of spots in state legislatures, governor's mansions and Congress lost by Democrats during Obama's presidency."


Democrats lost more than 1,030 seats during Barack Obama's presidency | Daily Mail Online
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:45 PM
 
Location: The 719
14,507 posts, read 22,370,207 times
Reputation: 13812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Gardner
There are a lot of people out there today who seem to be spiking the football trying to celebrate a moment for now it seems to leave the Affordable Care Act in place for today but let me tell you what happens if you continue to spike the football in the state of Colorado last week it was announced that the average premium rate increase for the next year will be 27% but that's if you're lucky enough to live in the Front Range of Colorado if you live in the Eastern Plains the Western Slope you're going to pay 30% more you make 40% more that spiking the football on the American people who will continue to pay more under the Affordable Care Act that is collapsing we will continue our work to get our job done to make sure that the status quo no longer stands and instead we provide relief to the American people
That's what he said a bit ago.

I think Congress should be replaced by robots.

The first thing I'd like Lindsey Graham to do is wipe that stupid smirk off his face and send him to daily townhall meetings.
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:46 AM
 
Location: lakewood
572 posts, read 397,659 times
Reputation: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Taxes should be high enough to support Medicare For All, period


...

I don't consider Medicare For All to be "socialized" medicine. IIRC, classic "socialism" means government ownership of the means of production. England has socialized medicine, their government OWNS the hospitals and the doctors are government employees. NO ONE is proposing that our federal government take over and own the hospitals and that our doctors and nurses become federal employees.

duplicitous much?


so, taxes should be high enough to pay for the medical care of all; but it is not socialism because the govt. does not own the "means of production."


in the healthcare industry, what exactly is being "produced?"
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,064 posts, read 11,683,349 times
Reputation: 31979
Quote:
Originally Posted by eatsDEN View Post
duplicitous much?


so, taxes should be high enough to pay for the medical care of all; but it is not socialism because the govt. does not own the "means of production."


in the healthcare industry, what exactly is being "produced?"
Medical services. It doesn't have to be a widget.
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