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Old 07-24-2017, 11:48 AM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,693 posts, read 4,315,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
Well, yes, of course. But there are broader issues in eastern Mass. that people don't seem to bring up- it's all relocation and great schools. Affordable housing, public transport, gentrification. But most posts seem to be all relocation, like, as you point out, there are so many posts about relocation/housing/schools, mostly on the Front Range (as are most Mass. posts about eastern Mass./Boston metro).

Right, schools aren't of interest to me, although relocation overall is. And I reiterate that I appreciate the cogent discussions about issues beyond relocation and schools.
Yeah, every single state forum here on CD has those same "bread and butter" posts - "Where's the best hidden gem of a town that no one else knows about that has fantastic schools, out of this world bargains on real estate, tons of high paying jobs and an authentic Sri Lankan drive-thru - conveniently located, of course." A perfectly valid question to be sure, but seeing it time and again in all its various iterations can become a tad boring.

The thing about Colorado - and most other states - is that there's rural and then there's RURAL. Like rural Pitkin County (Aspen) has the highest per capita income in the state and really can't be compared to Conejos County (Conejos) which is largely Hispanic, has a history extending back to the days of the conquistadors and a very low per capita income compared to the rest of the state. If the residents of Aspen were to secede from Colorado, they'd probably affiliate themselves with St Moritz while the inhabitants of Conejos would be more drawn to Espanola. The people of Bent County out on the rural eastern plains have probably all killed themselves since I was through there last. Bent County is the hardest place to live in Colorado and one of the hardest in the nation. Only 478 counties have it worse than Bent and that translates to 85% of the country has it easier. Read "Our Detroit - Southeastern Colorado." That story came out a few years back, but if anything, it's even more relevant today. I complain that no one in Denver even knows there's such a thing as Montezuma County, and I doubt if many Denverites could locate Nucla on a Colorado map, but thank god this isn't the drought stricken eastern plains. If Bent County seceded, it would probably place itself in the orbit of Outer Mongolia.

The Western Slope of Colorado is actually a remarkedly varied place with everything from chic ski resort towns to the blunt poverty of Naturita/Nucla. But even Nucla and Naturita are better off than those dying little towns out on the plains. I can envision the local librarian in Nucla (very nice, very dedicated lady) writing up a successful grant application and getting an award from Prairie Dogs Unlimited to showcase the area's many fine hunting and fishing opportunities and build a Teddy Roosevelt style lodge up on the Uncompahgre Plateau that would put Mar A Lago to shame.

Your new home of Ridgway is an interesting spot. It started out as a little railroad junction between Montrose and Ouray and has turned into a very presentable small town where tourists stop in to take advantage of the hot springs in the vicinity or continue on to hit the slopes at Telluride. In some ways, you'll have the best of both worlds - a bit quaint, small, rural; but very appreciated by those in the know like the folks who buy property in the Log Hill Mesa Area. You're close to Telluride, so you can hit them for a culture or fine dining fix, yet you don't have to put up with Mountain Village unless you feel like it. Ridgway tends conservative like much of rural Colorado, but nowhere near as conservative as where I live. All in all, I think you picked yourself a very nice spot - even if it doesn't have Sri Lankan take-out!
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Old 07-24-2017, 01:28 PM
 
811 posts, read 1,221,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
That kid and the little girl I tutored on her times tables were great, very "self reliant" kids, but the deck was already stacked against them. Given global warming, demographics and world markets, I imagine that by 2050 or so, rural Colorado will be all chic ski resorts (Western Slope) or else vast mono-culture fields after fields, all owned and run by Monsanto (Eastern Plains). Should Denver care? I don't know. Should it?
Do rural folks (many of whom inherited "their" farm/ranchland) care one iota about the various issues that cities are challenged by? In my experience, no, they could care less. In fact, it sure seems they despise the larger cities and everything and everybody in them and actively work/vote against things that could improve life for people in cities, the vast majority of whom have never done anything whatsoever to harm rural folks, other than to provide quality hospitals, jobs, culture, etc. It's been awhile since I last read my Dale Carnegie but as I recall hating people and constantly telling them how much you hate them is not exactly the optimal method to win friends and influence people. But I guess rural folks who constantly tell urban folks how awful they are get a pass because they're all such "real Americans" who are "self-reliant" and "don't take government handouts." Uh-huh. Right. Sorry, not buying that for one single second, despite the alternative-reality universe we're all living through that currently seems to be reaching a crescendo of utter farce and nonsense.
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:02 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,693 posts, read 4,315,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smdensbcs View Post
Do rural folks (many of whom inherited "their" farm/ranchland) care one iota about the various issues that cities are challenged by? In my experience, no, they could care less. In fact, it sure seems they despise the larger cities and everything and everybody in them and actively work/vote against things that could improve life for people in cities, the vast majority of whom have never done anything whatsoever to harm rural folks, other than to provide quality hospitals, jobs, culture, etc. It's been awhile since I last read my Dale Carnegie but as I recall hating people and constantly telling them how much you hate them is not exactly the optimal method to win friends and influence people. But I guess rural folks who constantly tell urban folks how awful they are get a pass because they're all such "real Americans" who are "self-reliant" and "don't take government handouts." Uh-huh. Right. Sorry, not buying that for one single second, despite the alternative-reality universe we're all living through that currently seems to be reaching a crescendo of utter farce and nonsense.
I'm having a hard time imagining the oppressed masses in Denver writhing under the fist of rural Colorado. And when I lived in Denver my next door neighbor's little sister's boyfriend claimed that he had inherited a very nice home near Washington Park from his grandmother. Probably a wild exaggeration, but my neighbor swore it was true.

Maybe you'll feel better if you step outside and take a reassuring look around at all that concrete and get a nice deep breath of carbon monoxide from the nearest traffic jam sullenly inching along on whatever major clogged traffic artery that feeds into your neighborhood. Me, I think I'll stroll out to the road that goes to Shiprock and throw rocky mountain oysters at any passing vehicle with El Paso County plates. I love you, Colorado Springs, but as a rural, real American, I just can't help myself.
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,893 posts, read 6,470,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
I'm having a hard time imagining the oppressed masses in Denver writhing under the fist of rural Colorado. And when I lived in Denver my next door neighbor's little sister's boyfriend claimed that he had inherited a very nice home near Washington Park from his grandmother. Probably a wild exaggeration, but my neighbor swore it was true.

Maybe you'll feel better if you step outside and take a reassuring look around at all that concrete and get a nice deep breath of carbon monoxide from the nearest traffic jam sullenly inching along on whatever major clogged traffic artery that feeds into your neighborhood. Me, I think I'll stroll out to the road that goes to Shiprock and throw rocky mountain oysters at any passing vehicle with El Paso County plates. I love you, Colorado Springs, but as a rural, real American, I just can't help myself.
Just remember that it's typically the city folk who want to limit emissions and the rural voting block who stop it.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:55 PM
 
5,285 posts, read 2,731,057 times
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^^^ More stereotyping about rural dwellers (and urban ones, too).

The recently-passed bill prohibiting coal rolling was introduced by Republican State Senator Don Coram from the western slope. Earlier iterations had been defeated by other Republicans, but this time it made it.

I saw more coal rolling in the Front Range than I have in SW CO. Looks like a higher percentage of people here own diesel trucks, but that doesn't mean they use illegally-modded ones as weapons. The percentage of gun ownership is probably higher, too, but that doesn't mean those owners are flashing them around to intimidate.

Articles like the one in The Denver Post only deepen any existing differences. Wow, just what everybody needs! Between the rose-colored glasses worn by some and the blinders worn by others, no wonder the facts get obscured.
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Old 07-25-2017, 11:21 AM
 
958 posts, read 788,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Just remember that it's typically the city folk who want to limit emissions and the rural voting block who stop it.
Well, they do warn you with tbe "rambler" in their username...lol. Overall, though, this is a GREAT thread, by cd forum standards. Lots of good points from all sides

1. I hate snobby urban elites who look down on rural, flyover folks and deride them as illterate hicks.

2. I equally hate rural folks who complain about "entitlement mentality" (aka blacks on welfare) whilr also expecting urban producers to "help rural folks out" , aka subsidize their continuing to live in areas with no economic reason to exist, if they are unable to switch to tourism from resource extraction. They want unfettered free market capitalism until they get the short end of the stick, then it becomes "help protect our way of life" .
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Old 07-25-2017, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,893 posts, read 6,470,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boulder2015 View Post
Well, they do warn you with tbe "rambler" in their username...lol. Overall, though, this is a GREAT thread, by cd forum standards. Lots of good points from all sides

1. I hate snobby urban elites who look down on rural, flyover folks and deride them as illterate hicks.

2. I equally hate rural folks who complain about "entitlement mentality" (aka blacks on welfare) whilr also expecting urban producers to "help rural folks out" , aka subsidize their continuing to live in areas with no economic reason to exist, if they are unable to switch to tourism from resource extraction. They want unfettered free market capitalism until they get the short end of the stick, then it becomes "help protect our way of life" .
Agree. And rambler is one of my favorite posters on here.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:51 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,693 posts, read 4,315,129 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by boulder2015 View Post
Well, they do warn you with tbe "rambler" in their username...lol. Overall, though, this is a GREAT thread, by cd forum standards. Lots of good points from all sides

1. I hate snobby urban elites who look down on rural, flyover folks and deride them as illterate hicks.

2. I equally hate rural folks who complain about "entitlement mentality" (aka blacks on welfare) whilr also expecting urban producers to "help rural folks out" , aka subsidize their continuing to live in areas with no economic reason to exist, if they are unable to switch to tourism from resource extraction. They want unfettered free market capitalism until they get the short end of the stick, then it becomes "help protect our way of life" .
Heh! If "they" wanted to warn you by their username, "they" would be "Alferd Packer," not a humble "Rambler." I've lived all over Colorado from tiny Nucla on the Western Slope to Denver on the Front Range. Grew up in the Springs and am passionately in love with my home state. I try to look at both sides of the equation but I can also be quite sarcastic if I'm in a mood for it.

I do feel that rural folk have been taking quite the beating lately and people tend to over-generalize when it comes to the subject of "rural America" or even "rural Colorado." When I try to give my understanding of my rural friends and neighbors, I often get accused of defending "racism" or "ignorant hayseeds." Nothing could be further from the truth. Racists and bigots sicken me and deliberate ignorance and a refusal to educate oneself goes against my every value over 30 years spent in the field of education as a librarian and a teacher.

"Unfettered free market capitalism" is one of the greatest threats our democracy faces. This country's love of the almighty dollar and our passion for more, always more has become immoral and destructive to the soul. And it has also been a major factor in the schism which divides our country today as in your apparent disgust with people who persist in living in areas which have "no economic reason to exist." I live in what one poster here infamously referred to as "unwanted Colorado." Unwanted by whom? Anyone who spends more than 5 minutes on the Colorado forum can't help but notice all the posts by people who want to live here. Why? Do they long for all that concrete in Denver? Do they gaze out their windows and dream longingly of being stuck in traffic for two thirds of their waking lives? No, they dream of "unwanted Colorado" which has "no economic reason to exist." They want to head out for the mountains to ski or explore meadows filled with wildflowers.

All that water that the Front Range cities use to provide their residents with all those nice green lawns and parks? That water comes from one of the greatest modern hydraulic societies on earth - originally created so that people could move to the arid West and grow the same crops they grew back home east of the Mississippi. If there had been no farmers or ranchers, there would be no Denver or Colorado Springs. I imagine that as a sophisticated urban dweller, you enjoy the occasional nice meal at a good restaurant. You may walk the aisles of Alfalfa's or King Soopers, searching for fresh corn on the cob or peaches. Maybe you like to hit the local farmer's market to buy "local." If so, then you need to thank Olathe and Palisade; Fruita and Rocky Ford. Sure you can abandon us to Monsanto and its new unholy alliance with China - it IS more economically viable - at least superficially. But then don't be surprised at the coming food shortages when widespread monoculture allows disease or insects to demolish the harvest of half this country or more, and you can write off food self reliance along with the education of that 5th grader in Paradox that I wrote about earlier.

Tourism certainly brings in some much needed cash around here, but, bottom line, tourism is mostly low paid jobs for a few well to do owners of hotel chains and ski resorts. The question is not resource extraction vs tourism or else nothing. The question is about growing green jobs - not just as in green corn or hay, but creating a whole new energy infrastructure - one based on solar, wind, geothermal and hydraulic. The fate of our planet depends upon it. Why should you care about that little girl in Paradox getting a proper education? Because we need a skilled workforce capable of doing the jobs which are vital for the future of our country, not just our state. And many of those jobs will be of necessity in rural regions. Plus, educated rural voters are much less likely to fall into the thrall of authoritarian despots.

This is not about being "entitled" or "welfare queens" or four generations of rural Americans on disability. It's about the social contract and the philosophy of Thomas Paine and The Rights of Man and Thomas Jefferson's ideas about democracy. Spend the money to educate that child who lives 400 miles away from you and reap the reward of no more "dirty lights" kept on by burning coal. I'll send you a portion of my tax money to help build affordable housing in Denver and alleviate the problem of urban homelessness and reap the reward of making Denver a place our children can afford to move to for more jobs and the chance to go to the symphony or hear a great Denver hip hop artist or pursue a career in community relations. Let's ALL get together and improve our infrastructure -especially our roads - and you won't have to deal with all those traffic jams and we won't have to deal with all the fatalities out here on narrow, unimproved roads that carry far too many vehicles driving far too fast.

Deal? At least think about it. That's what they "ramblers" want.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:11 PM
 
20,813 posts, read 38,998,701 times
Reputation: 19004
I'll take that deal.
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:01 PM
 
5,285 posts, read 2,731,057 times
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Great post, CR. I will add my two cents that what all places--rural and urban and everything in between--need is not one or two gigantic industries that become the paternal patronizing entities that dominate a place. Think International Big Mutha or LockMart or (right at home) Kinder Morgan. No, what they need is a lot of different economic bolsters, to cushion the inevitable ups and downs that most places suffer.

It is the same concept as a diverse ecosystem being better able to withstand invasion better than monocultures.

And lest people forget so soon, Denver went down in the dumps when oil and gas hauled out in the 80s. There are other examples, such as the description of Highlands Ranch et al being "a ghost town" when Martin Marietta laid off huge numbers of well-paid workers. That figure saying "primary jobs create 7 other jobs each"? The effects of similar "RIFs" ripple much larger than the number of "primary jobs" alone accounts for.

So maybe someone could have said that Denver had no economic reason to exist back then. And based on the huge number of cheap--really cheap--HUD homes and free months of rent followed by cheapcheap rents back then, plus dozens of abandoned strip malls and boarded-up storefronts, somebody could have said that Denver was unwanted also.

My my how times change. People's memories are so short.
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