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Old 01-01-2018, 12:08 PM
 
325 posts, read 152,821 times
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Previous generations were not saddled with massive amounts of student debt, like some/many millennials who attended college. The privatization of higher education has not served them well.

It used to not be that way . . . public education was more subsidized by tax revenue and seen as an investment in our youth. Well-educated youth get better jobs, contribute more to society, and pay more taxes to government.
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,197 posts, read 11,820,134 times
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Student loans are a valid point, but there is also a failure by some to recognize that Denver is no long an inexpensive place to live. I lived in Boston when I was in my 20s through 40s and the young professionals I knew never expected to rent one bedroom apartments in prime locations - they knew they'd have roommates to start with, or if they had a romantic partner they wanted to live with, they could afford a 1 bedroom between the two of them. Yet some in Denver still complain that a 24 year old at the cusp of their career can't afford to buy a house, or even rent a nice apartment on their own in a great area of town.

It's not that they won't ever be able to afford to buy a house, but it will come later, when it's based on two incomes and/or people are further along in their careers - just like it's been in the Northeast and on the West Coast for decades.

Last edited by emm74; 01-01-2018 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:23 PM
 
5,347 posts, read 7,229,953 times
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Also consider that 64% of millennials are single and so are tons of the gen-xers ---- more cannot count on that cushy double income to make things affordable than can. And many in these generations are finding it hard to get positions commensurate with their education due to older folks holding on to their positions longer or the positions simply going away, and I think we've all been seeing benefits evaporating over time but often ignored by the older of us because we're grand-fathered in while new hires get less and less. A lot of the gains made by the Baby Boomer generation are not being passed on to the next generations. Real wages have barely moved in decades while expenses are increasing. Opportunity for the average person is eroding. For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades | Pew Research Center

Last edited by otowi; 01-01-2018 at 01:19 PM..
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:29 PM
 
5,458 posts, read 2,846,641 times
Reputation: 10250
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Student loans are a valid point, but there is also a failure by some to recognize that Denver is no long an inexpensive place to live. I lived in Boston when I was in my 20s through 40s and the young professionals I knew never expected to rent one bedroom apartments in prime locations - they knew they'd have roommates to start with, or if they had a romantic partner they wanted to live with, they could afford a 1 bedroom between the two of them. Yet some in Denver still complain that a 24 year old at the cusp of their career can't afford to buy a house, or even rent a nice apartment on their own in a great area of town.

It's not that they won't ever be able to afford to buy a house, but it will come later, when it's based on two incomes and/or people are further along in their careers - just like it's been in the Northeast and on the West Coast for decades.
Exactly. I grew up in eastern MA and lived there during my 20s. I never expected to afford a SFH of my own in a decent neighborhood unless I (a) started with fixers in bad areas and slowly (very, very slowly) sold and bought my way up the housing chain, or (b) started with a tiny condo in a not-so-nice area etc etc. Both of these would have to be preceded by many years of sharing apts with roommates to scrimp and save for the large down payments typically (and sensibly) required there.

I left MA for a lot of reasons, among them what I perceived as too many decades of waiting to afford what I wanted. When I moved to the Denver area, it was in a bust and rents were cheap. I finally got my first own apartment—no roommates—at age 30. BUT the flip side, of course, is that the bust meant very few jobs, and a much lower pay rate than in the Boston area. I ran through nearly all savings in the first year but dug my feet into the soil of my chosen home state. Pick yer poison.

Arriving during a huge and intense boom is just begging for high rents and home prices. Get the facts BEFORE moving.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:47 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,649 posts, read 40,020,325 times
Reputation: 23806
Quote:
Originally Posted by otowi View Post
Also consider that 64% of millennials are single and so are tons of the gen-xers ---- more cannot count on that cushy double income to make things affordable than can. And many in these generations are finding it hard to get positions commensurate with their education ... Real wages have barely moved in decades while expenses are increasing. Opportunity for the average person is eroding. For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades | Pew Research Center
1) You NEVER want to depend on wages... (wages are taxed heavy, they are incremental (additive rather than multiplicative), they are only a small tool to enable you to REALIZE plan B is far more valuable) Plan B = creating your own value and wealth.

2) Opportunities to do this (non-wage income) has NEVER been greater than today!

3) I hired (6) STEM millennials this yr) They are actually quite worthless as engaged / contributing employees. They have NO experience!!! I mean NO.. (mechanical product design and manufacturing) Most boomers knew how to weld / build furniture / houses, fix cars, operate machine tools, chainsaws, semi trucks...... All LONG before they were out looking for work. (i.e... they did creative things as kids / many had relevant jobs before and through HS and college), All but one of my new hires was still driving 'mommy's car!!!

As an employer.. (job creator) TRAINING students who claim to have attended higher EDU is pathetic, non-productive, expensive, risky, and NOT-MY-JOB!!!. Thus I prefer interenational (green card holders) who actually know how to do SOMETHING!!!

BTW: the hiring wages for these millennials is 24x what my starting pay was.
That would avail me an equivalent $1m 'first house' based on my wages / house price when I started out. (converted to 2017 dollars)

but a HUGE difference is productivity... If I would have hired with no skills / contribution to profits... I would have been KICKED to the curb. (as very well should be expected).

simple solution... go create your own future!

I know many pre-age 30 successful entrepreneurs / millionaires. SO EZ with today's opportunities.
Wage income is so 'yesterday'. none of my kids aspired to wage income (thank goodness!)
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:51 AM
 
26,148 posts, read 28,542,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
1) You NEVER want to depend on wages... (wages are taxed heavy, they are incremental (additive rather than multiplicative), they are only a small tool to enable you to REALIZE plan B is far more valuable) Plan B = creating your own value and wealth.

2) Opportunities to do this (non-wage income) has NEVER been greater than today!
I have to agree with this. Newsflash: Most of us are facing declining real wages if we expect to do the same job year in and year out. That way of thinking has been outdated for 30+ years now. The "American Dream" of the biggest possible house, the new cars, and annual vacations to Disneyland/Disneworld is also outdated. The good news is that dream is overrated anyway. How about a new American Dream that focuses on a less consumer oriented lifestyle and more emphasis on savings/investment so that you're not so dependent on paid employment until age 65?

You folks in Colorado have Mr. Money Mustache right there leading the way!

Getting Rich: from Zero to Hero in One Blog Post
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Woodland Park, CO
204 posts, read 202,428 times
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Millennials are the most computer connected generation in history, and there are a thousand ways to earn a living online. If I was a Millennial (I'm Gen X but basically did the same thing in my time) I'd find a nice, inexpensive, rural town with decent internet and set out to build a life.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:01 AM
 
5,347 posts, read 7,229,953 times
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Out of curiosity, how many Internet-only jobs that make a living wage and will hire someone who lives in the middle of nowhere are there, realistically? Is it really a solution that a whole generation could be doing? And what would keep the Baby Boomers and Gen Xers from taking all those jobs first? I'm just thinking if so many of those jobs really existed to supply an entire generation there'd be a lot less talk on these forums complaining about commuter traffic etc. because people would all be sitting at home. As for these kids not having life experience, well, that would be the fault of their parents' generations who didn't let them do anything and regulated everything -more than it would be the kids' fault - seeing as they were kids and all. As for creating your own value/wealth - you have to have something to start with, and it is not a realistic economic model for an entire generation to not have wages as their primary means. If everyone sits around playing the market and no one works, there is no solid basis for the economy and it will be sustainable.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,085 posts, read 2,127,851 times
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While there certainly are more internet and telecommuter based jobs now than in the past, I would agree that not all of them are six figure, work from anywhere jobs. I say this because I've been looking and find that many flexible location and flexible schedule jobs tend to be part time or require weekly meetings that require you to be within an hour or two of the home base. It is a narrow margin of them that are truly work form anywhere and in some cases, you have to work your way into these positions with companies after doing your time on site.

IMO, its has been a norm for several decades for locals to migrate away from the front range for the western slope. This is the biggest source of transplants on the western slope.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:45 AM
 
1,256 posts, read 928,754 times
Reputation: 1446
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainEarth View Post
Millennials are the most computer connected generation in history, and there are a thousand ways to earn a living online. If I was a Millennial (I'm Gen X but basically did the same thing in my time) I'd find a nice, inexpensive, rural town with decent internet and set out to build a life.
I dont know any millennial that want to live like that though.

Everyone i know wants to live in a chic urban loft/townhome that use to be a factory that is now walkable to Whole Foods and the train. not being sarcastic, just the way i see it....They want to be independent and have everything on 1 income. My younger in laws think the burbs are hell. If you notice in Denver its LODO or RINO that are developing all these condo style homes. But....if you want to own a home renting a super nice place for 3-5 yrs isn't a god way to go. My wife and I slummed it for 3 years and then bought a home. Sister in law, lives in the hip place paying $1400/mo. Thats my mortgage on a $400k home.

My wife and I think of a rural town to move to, but 1 jobs and 2 we have a 1 yr old and plan another so having access to things is an issue.
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