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Old 07-25-2018, 01:21 PM
 
357 posts, read 168,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsFarSouthAsSouthGoes View Post
^^^This! It is absolutely insane for employers to offer employees $10 per hour in a town where the median house value is $420,000.
Why not?

With so many people wanting to live in the newest "hip" location they will work for less just to be here.

And remember- we NEVER get snow anymore so even the west-coasters will not have problems driving year-round.

Tell all of your friends!
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
12,845 posts, read 23,261,350 times
Reputation: 12233
We're thinking of moving some of our call-center operations out of Denver/CO for many of the reasons already mentioned here.

IMO the stretched-thin labor market has created somewhat of an entitlement mentality among some employees/prospects, where it feels like they're "holding the cards" so to speak. That kind of environment makes workplace policy and procedure enforcement difficult IMO, because they are harder to replace if they quit or are let go.

All of this makes providing quality customer service difficult. And we've been bitten enough times over the past couple of years after "simply paying them more". Somehow that gives license to "doing less", in our experience.
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:22 PM
 
2,244 posts, read 814,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Count David View Post
We're thinking of moving some of our call-center operations out of Denver/CO for many of the reasons already mentioned here.

IMO the stretched-thin labor market has created somewhat of an entitlement mentality among some employees/prospects, where it feels like they're "holding the cards" so to speak. That kind of environment makes workplace policy and procedure enforcement difficult IMO, because they are harder to replace if they quit or are let go.

All of this makes providing quality customer service difficult. And we've been bitten enough times over the past couple of years after "simply paying them more". Somehow that gives license to "doing less", in our experience.
Well, you would have loved it back in 2008 when the tables were turned. Employees were clamoring about the same issues from the other side, and employers laughed at them, mocked them, and told them to deal with it. I remember it quite vividly as a fresh new college grad entering the job market during the worst recession we've had in at least 30 years, if not since the Great Depression.

So...should we invite you to..."deal with it"? j/k

But yeah, it's frustrating now that the tables have turned; I can only imagine. It's always nice to have at least some balance as opposed to one side completely holding the deck of cards.
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
12,845 posts, read 23,261,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
Well, you would have loved it back in 2008 when the tables were turned. Employees were clamoring about the same issues from the other side, and employers laughed at them, mocked them, and told them to deal with it. I remember it quite vividly as a fresh new college grad entering the job market during the worst recession we've had in at least 30 years, if not since the Great Depression.

So...should we invite you to..."deal with it"? j/k

But yeah, it's frustrating now that the tables have turned; I can only imagine. It's always nice to have at least some balance as opposed to one side completely holding the deck of cards.
Back in 2009, I had to move markets (and back) in order to keep my job (same company, without myself anywhere near the helm yet). So yeah, I know what the other side feels like as well.

What has or will happen, is that some/all of our Denver folks will price themselves out of the market. We're trying our darndest to not let that happen, but our hand may be forced; especially when we aren't even getting the desired/minimum requirements of the job covered.
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:34 PM
 
2,244 posts, read 814,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Count David View Post
Back in 2009, I had to move markets (and back) in order to keep my job (same company, without myself anywhere near the helm yet). So yeah, I know what the other side feels like as well.

What has or will happen, is that some/all of our Denver folks will price themselves out of the market. We're trying our darndest to not let that happen, but our hand may be forced; especially when we aren't even getting the desired/minimum requirements of the job covered.
It's interesting that you mentioned it was a call center. Do these people possess particularly high skills relative to other call centers? If you don't mind me asking, what kind of wages are they expecting?

My understanding is that call centers are one of the higher paying, non-skilled jobs as it is, without the labor market cost inflation. Are these people asking for $70,000/yr to answer phones? Because, first off, I'm jealous, and secondly, c'mon!
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:48 PM
 
Location: between three Great Lakes.
1,639 posts, read 1,793,530 times
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"...the stretched-thin labor market has created somewhat of an entitlement mentality among some employees/prospects, where it feels like they're "holding the cards" so to speak..."

<Bette Davis voice>
They ARE, Blanche! They ARE holding the cards! So get with the program and jack your hourly rate. This is what a WORKER (not "employee") shortage looks like.

It's not up to your workers to make your boat payments, after all.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
12,845 posts, read 23,261,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
It's interesting that you mentioned it was a call center. Do these people possess particularly high skills relative to other call centers? If you don't mind me asking, what kind of wages are they expecting?

My understanding is that call centers are one of the higher paying, non-skilled jobs as it is, without the labor market cost inflation. Are these people asking for $70,000/yr to answer phones? Because, first off, I'm jealous, and secondly, c'mon!
No, they just need to know/learn our industry. Many want up to $20/hr. No experience/entry level starts around $15. And they work from home, generally. We let go one guy making $50K (he exhibited many of the "now I get to do less" habits towards the end). I know that's not a lot in this market, but for what he did, and what we were asking from him, it was.

If we move these jobs out of Denver, we will have a brick and mortar call center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenstyle View Post
"...the stretched-thin labor market has created somewhat of an entitlement mentality among some employees/prospects, where it feels like they're "holding the cards" so to speak..."

<Bette Davis voice>
They ARE, Blanche! They ARE holding the cards! So get with the program and jack your hourly rate. This is what a WORKER (not "employee") shortage looks like.

It's not up to your workers to make your boat payments, after all.
The common misconception. Unfortunately, the market for our work and incoming revenue are what sets employee pay. If I could pay them all $40/hr to sit at home and answer phones, I would.

And you meant Betty White.

By the way, if and when I buy my boat, it will be in cash.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:44 PM
 
Location: C-U metro
1,359 posts, read 2,633,990 times
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Its nothing new that Colorado and much of the Mountain West pay crappy wages but it used to be that the real estate was reasonable. Now that the banks have once again allowed home prices to skyrocket, much of Colorado is unaffordable as ever. The same is true in other areas but Denver just doesn't have the geographic location to demand such high prices. I understand pricing in Colorado Springs a bit as most of the older parts of town sit at the foot of Pikes Peak. You have to drive an hour from downtown Denver to even get to the Flatirons which are scenic but another 45 minutes from the actual mountains.



Wages will either keep up with home prices or the place will get starved out like the Bay Area and Seattle. I left in '07 and knew I would be done with Denver. I was sad to go but I didn't want to continue to live in a place where I would never be able to afford a home if I used sound financial advice.
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale
914 posts, read 413,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP View Post
Entry level wages where I am at have gone up 20% over the past four years. We don't lack applicants for those positions. We do have a harder time finding skilled labor for specific roles and when we post to national boards, typically find our top applicants are not local.
I used to live in Colorado in the late 1990s to 2002. I remember when the job market was booming in engineering and there was a "severe shortage" that made "national news". Recruiters were going all out to lure workers from far out-of-state.

Then it crashed in 2001-2002. The job market for engineering died. It forced me to move to Florida which was the only place I could find a job. I remember staring at Longs Peak fade away in the distance as I drove east on I-70. It was depressing. I was a hardcore mountain runner whose lifestyle revolved around the summit trails of the Rocky Mountains.

I feel skeptical about that "shortage" - very skeptical. I still remember 1999. You could easily quit an engineering job and get a 10% raise and promotion back then because of the "shortage" which ended quickly by 2001.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:19 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
20,872 posts, read 37,577,330 times
Reputation: 20967
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingcat2k View Post
Its nothing new that Colorado and much of the Mountain West pay crappy wages but it used to be that the real estate was reasonable. Now that the banks have once again allowed home prices to skyrocket, much of Colorado is unaffordable as ever. The same is true in other areas but Denver just doesn't have the geographic location to demand such high prices. I understand pricing in Colorado Springs a bit as most of the older parts of town sit at the foot of Pikes Peak. You have to drive an hour from downtown Denver to even get to the Flatirons which are scenic but another 45 minutes from the actual mountains.



Wages will either keep up with home prices or the place will get starved out like the Bay Area and Seattle. I left in '07 and knew I would be done with Denver. I was sad to go but I didn't want to continue to live in a place where I would never be able to afford a home if I used sound financial advice.
Shhh... Denver people won't want to hear this

Due to demand... Colorado will likely stay high for housing and low for wages, as we (USA) move to a 2 class society.

People do what they must (2-3 jobs for each wage earner) to stay in CO and live the dream (fighting to find open space in their free time).

The WINNERS are the transplants (or locals) that come with RE equity money (or inherited homes) and an income source not requiring employment in CO (investments / retirement / online businesses)).

Colorado can work OK for those who are so equipped

And THAT can contribute to "Employee Shortages in Colorado", Imagine how it will be in 20 yr... similar but worse (eldercare positions available, but no takers, due to high cost of living). Robots? possibly. Only requires a FEW skilled workers to keep the 'bots' running, but much of that can be done 'on-line' from India.

Food and water shortages might be more likely.

I would advise more gun control
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