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Old Yesterday, 08:01 AM
 
2,438 posts, read 3,268,167 times
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I guess some people are happy for fracking to be next to other peoples homes, just not theirs. Hopefully others can be more empathetic. On ballotopedia the Democratic party is listed as officially for 112.

"October 29, 2018: RS Energy Group, an energy research firm based in Canada, released a report titled "Proposition 112 Playbook: Indecent Proposal," in which they claimed that oil and gas companies would still be able to access more than half of the minerals underground in northeastern Colorado if Proposition 112 were to pass."

The scare tactics the oil and gas companies are using are working on some people so it is important that people do research and understand what 112 really is. It is obvious from the forum that many people do not know that it is a set back on future wells to prevent the new style of fracking mega pads (40 wells concentrated in one place) going in next to existing residential neighborhoods. These mega pads release concentrated pollutants, have round the clock tankers with noise and large amounts of noise pollution. Industrial oil and gas production is not something anyone should have next to their homes.

One of the reasons the oil and gas want to put these in suburban areas is that it is cheaper for them to use existing road infrastructure and not have to build their own roads on open land. 112 forces them to build their own roads on open land to access their pads.

These are not the old style wells with a single well here and a single well there that most people think of when they think of oil and gas production in Colorado.

Parents are very concerned with the new style of mega pads due to things like this:
Young Coloradans diagnosed with acute lymphocytic leukemia are more likely to live in areas of high-density oil and gas development compared to young Coloradans diagnosed with other types of cancer, according to researchers at the Colorado School of Public Health at CU Anschutz.
http://www.cuanschutztoday.org/study...hood-leukemia/

112 is about protecting peoples health and our air quality. It does not go too far in forcing oil and gas to go to unoccupied land. More than half is still available. They do not NEED to be in people's backyards to access them. What they want to do is get them out the cheapest way. Which is using suburban road density to access their wells. They SHOULD be out in the middle of empty space with their industrial well sites.

Last edited by mic111; Yesterday at 08:14 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,561 posts, read 5,856,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic111 View Post
I guess some people are happy for fracking to be next to other peoples homes, just not theirs. Hopefully others can be more empathetic. On ballotopedia the Democratic party is listed as officially for 112.

"October 29, 2018: RS Energy Group, an energy research firm based in Canada, released a report titled "Proposition 112 Playbook: Indecent Proposal," in which they claimed that oil and gas companies would still be able to access more than half of the minerals underground in northeastern Colorado if Proposition 112 were to pass."

The scare tactics the oil and gas companies are using are working on some people so it is important that people do research and understand what 112 really is. It is obvious from the forum that many people do not know that it is a set back on future wells to prevent the new style of fracking mega pads (40 wells concentrated in one place) going in next to existing residential neighborhoods. These mega pads release concentrated pollutants, have round the clock tankers with noise and large amounts of noise pollution. Industrial oil and gas production is not something anyone should have next to their homes.

One of the reasons the oil and gas want to put these in suburban areas is that it is cheaper for them to use existing road infrastructure and not have to build their own roads on open land. 112 forces them to build their own roads on open land to access their pads.

These are not the old style wells with a single well here and a single well there that most people think of when they think of oil and gas production in Colorado.
I think youíre over simplifying this. Itís not black and white. I am absolutely opposed to having wells right next to peopleís homes and if this simply did that I would be for it as Iím sure Jared Polis would be. This does far more than that. I know the government officials I spoke with yesterday have done their homework and would not just buy O&G scare tactics.
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Old Yesterday, 08:17 AM
 
2,438 posts, read 3,268,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
I think you’re over simplifying this. It’s not black and white. I am absolutely opposed to having wells right next to people’s homes and if this simply did that I would be for it as I’m sure Jared Polis would be. This does far more than that. I know the government officials I spoke with yesterday have done their homework and would not just buy O&G scare tactics.
Don't you think the cities and residents of Erie, Lafayette, Broomfield, Thornton, Boulder have tried everything available to keep them out of their backyards? This fight has been going on for years. There is no way to do it without something like 112. Oil and gas doesn't ever get turned down for a site application under the current laws. Never. Not one time. Cities can do nothing under the current laws. They can't ban them or turn them down either.

112 is not a special interest group or industry group proposal. It is a grass roots, citizen lead initiative. These are people with full time jobs, home owners and parents who have no other recourse to protect their neighborhoods. They have spent alot of their own personal, unpaid time trying to fight the well applications and have not had any recourse under state law. Then they took time away from there personal lives to come up with this solution.
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Old Yesterday, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,561 posts, read 5,856,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic111 View Post
Don't you think the cities and residents of Erie, Lafayette, Broomfield, Thornton, Boulder have tried everything available to keep them out of their backyards? This fight has been going on for years. There is no way to do it without something like 112. Oil and gas doesn't ever get turned down for a site application under the current laws. Never. Not one time. Cities can do nothing under the current laws. They can't ban them or turn them down either.

112 is not a special interest group or industry group proposal. It is a grass roots, citizen lead initiative. These are people with full time jobs, home owners and parents who have no other recourse to protect their neighborhoods. They have spent alot of their own personal, unpaid time trying to fight the well applications and have not had any recourse under state law. Then they took time away from there personal lives to come up with this solution.
I agree something needs to be done. This is just not the right approach. Weíll see how it plays out because it seems to be polling well. Iím a no on this one.
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Old Yesterday, 08:35 AM
 
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When you let the oil and gas companies do what they want, as they can do without 112, you get things like this.

In one of the most fracked counties in the country, a fight is underway between environmental justice advocates and the Colorado commission that oversees oil and gas development. Four environmental and civil rights groups are suing the commission for allowing a company to build 24 oil and gas wells by a public school in a low-income area—after the same company tossed its original plans to build near a charter school serving mostly white, middle-class families.

https://www.motherjones.com/environm...public-school/

"The smell was like someone had stuffed your noise into a gas tank of a diesel truck," explained van Woudenberg. "I haven't been able to spend a single evening outside."

Neighbors are fed up with the smell, and constant noises coming from the site at all hours of the day.

"The noise is what keeps us up at night," said van Woudenberg.


https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ie-subdivision

This is not some hypothetical far off in the future, maybe the oil and gas companies will play nice and not locate in the suburbs scenario. This is an everyday, month to month, fight that has been going on for years with residents losing each and every time.
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Old Yesterday, 12:09 PM
 
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I know skydog has voted but for others still pondering this issue.

Think about how far a 40 well mega pad should be from your home. Is it OK to have it 500 ft or would you rather have 2500 ft? Or as most of us would, you not like to have it at all near your home.

How about your water reservoir? If 500 ft enough? 2500 ft is preferable, right? Water tests only test for possible known contaminants. By the time citizens have complained of a funny taste or not feeling right they have already ingested the chemicals. There is no water test that tests for everything. The testers actually have to test for specific chemicals. The oil and gas companies do not have to disclose the chemicals in fracking fluid. As a result they can't be tested for. Testing after the fact doesn't provide much solace if you've been drinking, cooking with and bathing in contaminated water.

The mega fracking pad in Broomfield is being proposed to go right next to the water reservoir. So your saying to yourself this doesn't bother me as my water is Denver water. Your reservoir in the foothills and the mountains is vulnerable also without 112 to protect it with a safer setback of 2500 ft. Think they wouldn't do it? The Broomfield proposal shows they would.

Think about people who live on a couple of acres and their houses are near the road so most of their land is behind them. The fracking equipment can be as close as 15 ft from their property line. Yep 15 ft. Do they now have enjoyable use of their property? Can their kids play in the yard? Can the dogs or horses safely run the perimeter? Can they have a vegetable garden out back? No. Does this impact their ability to sell their house for fair market value? Yes.

A YES on 112 forces the oil and gas company to buy their home to meet the set back. Thankfully they will have a buyer. Without 112 who would they sell to? Does anyone want a fracking mega pad with 40 wells 15 ft from their property line?

Oil and gas will have to spend more with 112. They will have to build their own roads across the 2500 ft to meet the public roads. They will have to buy peoples property and houses.

They are the ones making the profit. Shouldn't they have to bear the cost? It isn't fair to force the cost onto individual home owners.

It isn't fair to risk our water supply. Will oil and gas pay your health bills if you drink contaminated water from your faucet?

A good question is why do so many fracking operations try to locate near schools. Because they only have to be 350 ft from a playground and 1000 ft from the school (vs 500 from a home). Schools have school yards and parking around them. Hence they have open land that can be counted in the number of ft from a structure. Do they care about the health of people's children? No, not as long as it isn't their kids.

Remember 500 or 1000 ft setback isn't from your property line. It is from a occupied structure. Your whole property can be within that set back except the little tiny amount your house sits on next to the road. A YES on 112 helps with that. It provides safer set backs. It puts the cost of development right back where it belongs which is on the oil and gas companies, not on individual home owners.
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Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM
 
Location: The 719
13,663 posts, read 21,507,603 times
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Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
Both Polis and Stapleton are against 112.
As am I thanks to your suggestion.

Voted against it.

This is always the problem with the other side and why you cannot trust them with any compromise. They take a mile and take over the whole road.

Some claiming to be in the know say it was always this way, but another can of worms there.
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Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,160 posts, read 9,454,792 times
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Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
First I think itís important to say that I consider myself to be very pro environment and believe that the oil and gas companies are out of control under the Trump administration. The Dems I spoke to share my beliefs in this.

It really came down to 112 going too far. 2500 feet doesnít sound like a lot, but in reality to be half a mile from any occupied building or area designated as ďvulnerableĒ does severely limit available sites to the point of being a major detriment. Polis is big time anti fracking and he opposes this initiative. Itís intent is right, but itís too extreme. One of the most grounded people I know who is involved with local politics said not just no, but hard no.

A couple of other things I got from my conversation:

74 is a train wreck and Oregon basically had to let the entire system collapse before they could fix it when they passed a similar measure.

109 is put forward by Libertarian wingnut, Jon Caldera. Itís intent is to defund public schools and healthcare to pay for roads. Itís polling well because of how itís worded, but it will be disastrous for the state. Iíd urge you all to no vote 109 and yes vote 110 if you really want to fix the roads.

I split my ticket (sorry Dave) and voted for Wayne Williams. Heís not political and does a very good job. Jena Griswold is highly political and not at all qualified for the job.

I only voted on one of the judges, Morris Hoffman. I was on a jury about a decade ago and he was the judge. The guy was awesome.
More or less identical to the way I voted. No on 109, 112, and 74. There will be a heavy amount of schadenfreude if both 74 and 112 pass. O&G companies and property owners with a vested interest in resource extraction will sue the pants off the state.
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Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM
 
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The Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission has upheld a $26,000 fine against a company that found itself at odds with U.S. Rep. Jared Polis, after the congressman complained about its drilling activities on property near his weekend retreat in Weld County.

Thanks to his position, when Polis complained, he got some results. The average home owner doesn't. And he was only fighting against the infringing of his enjoyment of his 50 acre weekend retreat. Not his full time residence. Does a fine really help when it is your full time residence? No it does not.

Polis said, "While I am thrilled that the violation was penalized to the extent possible under the law for a well that was illegally drilled, the relatively small penalty that the current law allows shows why we need to change our laws so that bad actors have a real incentive to follow the law. We need protections for homeowners and real mechanisms for enforcing those protections."

He added, "If your neighbor builds a fence on your property where it's not allowed, they have to take it down, but as I learned firsthand, frackers are allowed to produce from wells even if they are illegally drilled.""


Jared Polis complaint on fracking leads to fine for energy company - Boulder Daily Camera

Do you think his political position had something to do with his success? It is a good question why he isn't backing 112. Maybe it has something to do with lobbyist and campaign contributions. Who knows.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Rex Tillerson doesn't want fracking related industrial activities near his 83 acre horse ranch or 18 acre homestead. And this was just a water tower with trucks accessing it. Not a 40 well mega pad. Compared to what Colorado home owners are facing, 40 well mega pads, a fracking water tower is nothing. But he fought it because he knows industrial activities like noisy water trucks going at all hours of the day and night aren't appropriate to have near homes.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...cking/5726603/

The CEO of Exxon Stands Up for Homeowners Against Frackers (When He's the Homeowner)
Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson, who bought his house with money made from oil drilling and fracking, filed a lawsuit and petitioned his Texas town council to block a water tower that would be used for fracking.


It doesn't get much more not-in-my-backyard than "I make tens of millions of dollars a year running a company that creates noise nuisances and traffic hazards that I insist be located nowhere near my home."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...eowner/358365/


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Colorado suburban home owners don't have 83 acre horse ranches and 18 acre homesteads. They have small suburban lots that now face open space. Soon to face 40 well mega pads.
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Old Yesterday, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
19,045 posts, read 10,073,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic111 View Post
-
Colorado suburban home owners don't have 83 acre horse ranches and 18 acre homesteads. They have small suburban lots that now face open space. Soon to face 40 well mega pads.
well, hopefully not. Although I don't know if there will be any new polling data on it before the election results so hard to predict.

But I'm not that surprised Polis is against, I think most establishment pols are, and while the right likes to demonize him as some wild eyed California liberal, he's really not.
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