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View Poll Results: What’s next for Hick?
Make a run at The Oval Office 7 38.89%
Waltz in to a Senate seat 8 44.44%
Go quietly in to that good night 3 16.67%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,990 posts, read 1,579,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
FWIW, I'm a woman (age 65) who had always voted for the Democratic POTUS candidate until 2012, and I think that Hilary's worse problem was Hilary herself. She struck me as being just as arrogant as Trump, although but much more "polished" and "political" than he was,, but she alienated moderates such as myself with some of her statements. She didn't seem to realize that she needed more support than just other avowed liberals like herself.

Just my opinion, of course.
Hilary certainly wasn't perfect but anyone who voted for Trump should never be welcomed in the democratic party.
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Old Yesterday, 02:55 PM
 
194 posts, read 33,853 times
Reputation: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
The irony is that both parties could use pragmatic candidates like Hickenlooper. Each party is so concerned with "energizing the base" that they're in a race to the bottom with all the candidates trying to out-demagogue each other. The end result is predictably a clown car full of morons. I'm hopeful that this will eventually lead to a viable third-party to offset the idiocy of the two major parties.
You can energize the base without nominating demagogues. Beto and Obama are good examples of this. Some of us just want someone with a fresh perspective and some new, courageous ideas that represent our diverse population and culture (not just angry, old, Christian, white men & women).

Hillary was a safe bet, but she also had a ton of baggage that probably did more harm than good. Hickenlooper is probably another safe bet, but his problem this cycle may be that nobody knows who he is outside of CO. And to some extent, charisma matters in today's elections; it's just the reality of it. And I've listened/watched Hick speak a number of times, and he struggles in that area. If you want a good example of this, take a look back at Martin O'Malley. And heck, he is better looking that Hick.

Last edited by Sir Quotes A Lot; Yesterday at 03:07 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 03:10 PM
 
5,516 posts, read 830,981 times
Reputation: 14411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
You can energize the base without nominating demagogues. Beto and Obama are good examples of this. Some of us just want someone with a fresh perspective and some new, courageous ideas that represent our diverse population and culture (not just angry, old, Christian, white men & women).

Hillary was a safe bet, but she also had a ton of baggage that probably did more harm than good. Hickenlooper is probably another safe bet, but his problem this cycle may be that nobody knows who he is outside of CO. And to some extent, charisma matters in today's elections; it's just the reality of it. And I've listened/watched Hick speak a number of times, and he struggles in that area.
FWIW, I thought Hick had loads of charisma when I voted for him the first time, but he turned me off by becoming MUCH more liberal than the moderate I thought I was voting for.
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Old Yesterday, 03:14 PM
 
5,516 posts, read 830,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Hilary certainly wasn't perfect but anyone who voted for Trump should never be welcomed in the democratic party.
I agree, and I was tempted to say that I personally would not want to associate with anyone who is fervent Trump supporter, either. (I do know that many people voted for Trump because they couldn't stand Hilary, and I would bet that many people voted for Hilary because they couldn't stand Trump.)
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Old Yesterday, 03:17 PM
 
194 posts, read 33,853 times
Reputation: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
FWIW, I thought Hick had loads of charisma when I voted for him the first time, but he turned me off by becoming MUCH more liberal than the moderate I thought I was voting for.
I don't really understand what you mean by "becoming more liberal". I always took him as a pro-business, socially progressive candidate. Which I personally think is a great mix, because most liberals get lambasted for not having any business sense. This guy has literally run successful businesses.

FWIW, I think we need to fight fire with fire when it comes to a candidate like Trump. Unfortunately, he showed us how easily it was to exploit the general electorate by using aggressive language and snarky quips (tough, locker room talk that resonates with your every man working in the fields or the factory). That and a few half-baked talking points carried him to the White House. We need someone who can respond in kind, IMO. Not necessarily to be so nasty as him, but someone who is sharp and quick, and can wipe the floor with him as soon as he goes on a juvenile tirade. Joe Biden initially came to mind as someone who can hold their own, and he would be my choice if all else fails. Otherwise, we need a fiery, young whipper snapper candidate. Kamala Harris perhaps, with charming, young Beto as her VP.

Again, just my .02 cents. I enjoy political commentating just as much as the next, but will be the first to admit that I'm no expert when it comes to this stuff. Just pontificating on my own gut feelings.
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Old Yesterday, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
19,574 posts, read 10,551,839 times
Reputation: 28891
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
FWIW, I'm a woman (age 65) who had always voted for the Democratic POTUS candidate until 2012, and I think that Hilary's worse problem was Hilary herself. She struck me as being just as arrogant as Trump, although much more "polished" and "political" than he was,, but she alienated moderates such as myself with some of her statements. She didn't seem to realize that she needed more support than just other avowed liberals like herself.

Just my opinion, of course.
So in other words, she couldn't win no matter what she does because moderates considers her an extreme liberal and liberals a/k/a progressives consider her a neoliberal corporate shill who can't pass a Bernie-defined purity test and she supposedly would have been even worse than Trump in terms of working on progressive goals. (and yes, there are very stupid people out there still claiming that)
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Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM
 
5,516 posts, read 830,981 times
Reputation: 14411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
I don't really understand what you mean by "becoming more liberal". I always took him as a pro-business, socially progressive candidate. Which I personally think is a great mix, because most liberals get lambasted for not having any business sense. This guy has literally run successful businesses.

FWIW, I think we need to fight fire with fire when it comes to a candidate like Trump. Unfortunately, he showed us how easily it was to exploit the general electorate by using aggressive language and snarky quips (tough, locker room talk that resonates with your every man working in the fields or the factory). That and a few half-baked talking points carried him to the White House. We need someone who can respond in kind, IMO. Not necessarily to be so nasty as him, but someone who is sharp and quick, and can wipe the floor with him as soon as he goes on a juvenile tirade. Joe Biden initially came to mind as someone who can hold their own, and he would be my choice if all else fails. Otherwise, we need a fiery, young whipper snapper candidate. Kamala Harris perhaps, with charming, young Beto as her VP.

Again, just my .02 cents. I enjoy political commentating just as much as the next, but will be the first to admit that I'm no expert when it comes to this stuff. Just pontificating on my own gut feelings.
I am definitely with you (regarding myself) on the bold! And that was the problem in my case -- because I was voting with my gut, so to speak, and took him as he appeared to be. I loved his first campaign commercials, and Hick struck me as being a mostly "average guy" who made a huge success at business but who also retained his humility and was for the people more than he was for the wealthy and powerful. To me, he epitomized the best of both liberal and conservative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Edwq9vHTWs

But then he refused to enforce the death penalty on the Chuck E. Cheese killer, and he also became an outspoken advocate for allowing children of illegal immigrants to pay LESS tuition than children of out-of-state citizens. (Yes, I know that he was pleasing his base, the increasingly liberal make-up of metro Denver, but it made me angry; and I realized that he had turned into just another win-at-all-costs politician, rather than the "new Independent voice" I thought I had voted for.)

Last edited by katharsis; Yesterday at 05:26 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 05:03 PM
 
5,516 posts, read 830,981 times
Reputation: 14411
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
So in other words, she couldn't win no matter what she does because moderates considers her an extreme liberal and liberals a/k/a progressives consider her a neoliberal corporate shill who can't pass a Bernie-defined purity test and she supposedly would have been even worse than Trump in terms of working on progressive goals. (and yes, there are very stupid people out there still claiming that)

I would agree with the bold.
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Old Yesterday, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,832 posts, read 1,105,578 times
Reputation: 3785
I think if Hickenlooper wants to stay in politics, his best bet is to run against Gardner in 2020. I agree with the assessments that he isn't well-known enough for a POTUS run (unless he and John Kasich make good the rumors that *they're* going to run on the same ticket, then everybody'll know who he is fast). But he is well-known and fairly well-liked here in Colorado, so if he wanted Gardner's seat, he'd stand a good chance of taking it.
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Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
19,574 posts, read 10,551,839 times
Reputation: 28891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigo Cardinal View Post
I think if Hickenlooper wants to stay in politics, his best bet is to run against Gardner in 2020. I agree with the assessments that he isn't well-known enough for a POTUS run (unless he and John Kasich make good the rumors that *they're* going to run on the same ticket, then everybody'll know who he is fast). But he is well-known and fairly well-liked here in Colorado, so if he wanted Gardner's seat, he'd stand a good chance of taking it.
A Hickenlooper/Kasich (either way) ticket would be a sure fire loser. Kasich is an extreme conservative - he's polite about it, and pretends to be much more moderate than he really is, but his policy positions are very extreme.

And while Hickenlooper is far from the extreme liberal some seem to believe, his policy positions are not compatible with Kasich - maybe there is some small crossover, but there wouldn't be a lot.
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