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Old Yesterday, 09:59 AM
 
4 posts, read 229 times
Reputation: 21

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I've been travelling around and camping in the national forests with my campervan for several years and I would really like to have some property that I can camp on long-term and not have to move every 14 days. I'm from the South and I'm used to rural land with no restrictions whatsoever, there are a lot of places in Arkansas and Missouri which you can buy land and simply do whatever you want. From my research it sounds like Colorado is hell when it comes to land-use restrictions.

I don't need electricity, water or a septic system at all, I do my business in odor proof bags with solidifying powder and throw it out in the trash. That's how I've done it for years and it's never been an issue in the slightest. If I had land I'd probably compost my waste and grow vegetables with it. I really don't see why that would be a problem but apparently it's illegal almost everywhere. There's no way I would waste thousands of dollars on a septic system for no reason. Is there any county at all in Colorado that lets you live on your land without getting any utilities? I know there was some controversy in the news about people living in Costilla County off-grid and getting kicked off by the land marshals but I can't find a clear answer of whether they allow off-gridders or not. Anyone have any information?

Thanks

 
Old Yesterday, 02:27 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 3,729,906 times
Reputation: 2311
CO counties vary but there is a state minimum defined here:



https://colorado.gov/pacific/sites/d...18%2805%29.pdf




Other related information: https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cdp...atment-systems
 
Old Yesterday, 03:06 PM
 
4,893 posts, read 2,475,472 times
Reputation: 8897
Wrong state for being so casual about septic systems.

Water that runs through someone’s land often is owned by someone else, more likely a lot of someone elses, who own the rights to that water.

It matters whether your “compost” contaminates the water. I put the word in quotes because we had a neighbor in WA whose “compost” was nothing more than a pile of garbage. Nothing was done to actually make it compost. The flies and raccoons and stench...

Since you already scoped out places in AR and MS that allow what you plan to do, maybe that is where you should make your septic-less home. The reason why counties tighten up their regulations is because of problems caused by such homes. Being off-grid does not mean anything goes. It means you do not tie in to municipal or county water or power lines.
 
Old Yesterday, 07:36 PM
 
4 posts, read 229 times
Reputation: 21
That is really sad, Colorado is a wonderful place to be but that level of regulation is unreasonable in my opinion. Throwing diapers/incontinence products in the trash is legal and widespread so there are workable alternatives to disposing of waste on the property altogether. People could also use RV tanks and dump them at a station. A simple yearly inspection to ensure people aren't trashing their land would be more reasonable, they could even charge a fee for it.

The requirement to get a well/water installed is moronic on a whole new level. I get my water at the Walmart dispensers with my groceries. Sometimes I catch it with a tarp. It doesn't take much at all and whether or not I die of dehydration is really my own business. I don't think our founding fathers intended for this kind of government overreach.
 
Old Yesterday, 09:33 PM
 
4,893 posts, read 2,475,472 times
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If you don’t like the regs, then pick one of the states that you already know does not have them. CO is getting stricter, not easier or cheaper or more willing to foul the resources.

Simple. There are 49 other states, not to mention other countries with lax health and environment standards.
 
Old Yesterday, 10:37 PM
 
Location: on the wind
5,820 posts, read 2,278,012 times
Reputation: 20031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiz View Post
That is really sad, Colorado is a wonderful place to be but that level of regulation is unreasonable in my opinion. Throwing diapers/incontinence products in the trash is legal and widespread so there are workable alternatives to disposing of waste on the property altogether. People could also use RV tanks and dump them at a station. A simple yearly inspection to ensure people aren't trashing their land would be more reasonable, they could even charge a fee for it.

The requirement to get a well/water installed is moronic on a whole new level. I get my water at the Walmart dispensers with my groceries. Sometimes I catch it with a tarp. It doesn't take much at all and whether or not I die of dehydration is really my own business. I don't think our founding fathers intended for this kind of government overreach.
Ironically, CO is a "wonderful place" because most if not all the people who live there give a hoot about their land...and other people's land. They realize they leave a collective footprint and recognize there are ways to minimize it. Little things such as not contaminating their neighbors' or the wildland's water table with unfiltered sewage; something a correctly designed septic system helps insure. Greywater filtered by a properly-designed septic system returns to the water table in a decontaminated state. Septic sludge that needs to be pumped periodically gets treated by a facility so it is also rendered decontaminated. This attitude is basically bypassing all sanitary processing and instead, putting personal waste into a public landfill that isn't designed to process it. Plus all the materials and chemicals used to create these s&*$ bricks or whatever euphemism you care to use. Just because disposable diapers are technically legal doesn't mean they are responsible or sustainable. Consider all those campgrounds you've squatted at...again, no thought for anything other than convenience; out of sight out of mind. Just dumping it and turning your back on it. Don't whine about what that camping cost you or what your taxes are either. Nothing is "free" even on public land. At least RV dump station contents get processed responsibly. Who wants to live near landfills where those diapers pile up? I'm sure you would be one of the first to complain when the next one gets proposed near your property.

Newsflash...no one wants to shovel your *&$# solidified or not.

This landowner you want to be takes no responsibility for the waste they produce...just making it someone else's problem. As long as THEY are not bothered or inconvenienced. Being able to toss the waste out of sight or mind is all that matters to them. As long as THEY don't have to foot their share of the bill. Don't try to claim it's to keep the property cleaner. It is driven by money they resent spending because someone who knows more about it says they must share the responsibility. It is because they don't care to recognize the need for management on a scale larger than themselves. This is nothing grander than a higher degree of selfishness. It is people like this who create the need for government "overreach" as you call it. Do not claim that you would welcome that "yearly inspection" of your land by any authority. Not buying that for one second. Deal with the fact that the days of blissfully ignorant rural independence are over. Buying water at Walmart is hardly self sufficiency. How amazingly hypocritical. What do you think it takes to produce that potable water you buy it so casually?

If you've found places that don't care about anything other than the present, just stay there.

Last edited by Parnassia; Yesterday at 11:46 PM..
 
Old Yesterday, 11:31 PM
 
117 posts, read 154,798 times
Reputation: 282
Conservation, land stewardship, and resource management are high priorities for Coloradans.

I realize that you would intend on leaving a negligible footprint on your land, but you have to understand that regulations here exist precisely because historically so many others did not. I live in the San Luis Valley - a place that, among other things, is well-known for attracting off-grid'ers and modern-day homesteaders. The people you speak of in Costilla County that have been 'kicked off' are the ones who bought land here knowing that regulations regarding land-use and water existed, but chose to not abide by those regulations because they either figured no one would notice because it's so empty out here, or they simply didn't care because they disagreed with the regulations. In my opinion, these types of people disrespect both the land and their neighbors by choosing to place themselves above the common good. This is a viewpoint shared by many here, and one that spans the political spectrum.

If you find Colorado's regulations to be unreasonable, I would suggest looking into land in Wyoming or Idaho. I think your philosophical views would be more welcomed there and you might be able to find what you're looking for. Good luck.
 
Old Yesterday, 11:55 PM
 
4 posts, read 229 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
Ironically, CO is a "wonderful place" because most if not all the people who live there give a hoot about their land...and other people's land. They realize they leave a collective footprint and recognize there are ways to minimize it. Little things such as not contaminating their neighbors' or the wildland's water table with unfiltered sewage; something a correctly designed septic system helps insure. Greywater filtered by a properly-designed septic system returns to the water table in a decontaminated state. Septic sludge that needs to be pumped periodically gets treated by a facility so it is also rendered decontaminated. This attitude is basically bypassing all sanitary processing and instead, putting personal waste into a public landfill that isn't designed to process it. Plus all the materials and chemicals used to create these s&*$ bricks or whatever euphemism you care to use. Just because disposable diapers are technically legal doesn't mean they are responsible or sustainable. Consider all those campgrounds you've squatted at...again, no thought for anything other than convenience; out of sight out of mind. Just dumping it on someone else. At least RV dump station contents get processed responsibly. Who wants to live near landfills where those diapers pile up? I'm sure you would be one of the first to complain when the next one gets proposed near your property.

Newsflash...no one wants to shovel your *&$# solidified or not.

This landowner you want to be takes no responsibility for the waste they produce...just making it someone else's problem. As long as THEY are not bothered or inconvenienced. Being able to toss the waste out of sight or mind is all that matters to them. As long as THEY don't have to foot their share of the bill. Don't try to claim it's to keep the property cleaner. It is driven by money they resent spending because someone who knows more about it than they do says they must. It is because they don't care to recognize the need for management on a scale larger than themselves. This is nothing grander than a higher degree of selfishness. It is people like this who create the need for government "overreach" as you call it. Do not claim that you would welcome that "yearly inspection" of your land by any authority. Not buying that for one second. Deal with the fact that the days of blissfully ignorant rural independence are over. Buying water at Walmart is hardly self sufficiency. How amazingly hypocritical. What do you think it takes to produce that potable water you buy it so casually?

If you've found places that don't care about anything other than the present, stay there.
Wow, how incredibly ignorant and shortsighted. You clearly know nothing about people who live off-grid. Most of them have far more respect for the land than the VAST majority of people. Our cities are polluting the **** out of the environment and humanity completely decimating it at an unprecedented rate which has very little to do with our human waste. We're throwing away megatons of plastic and toxic waste/chemicals into the environment, corporations aren't held accountable for anything, and you're worried about a bit of de-odored solidified feces and plastic bags and compost? I guarantee I produce 5% of the household trash of an ordinary American, and my trash isn't offensive in any way to those who work at a landfill. Your priorities are so far out of wack it's astonishing. Living off the land naturally, composting your waste responsibly, growing your own vegetables, raising chickens, etc, these are literally the best thing we can do as a society to respect the land and leave it better and healthier than we found it. Humans have been doing it that way for hundreds of thousands of years. Also, there's around 130 billion wild mammals defecating in the woods every day and somehow that's not a serious issue whatsoever and never will be.

I suggest you do a little bit more research and open your mind a bit to the actual reality of the situation. Composting human waste is a proven, clean, safe, sanitary and incredibly environmentally friendly way to dispose of waste. In the arid areas of Colorado, flushing your waste down the toilet with 3 gallons of water is an absurd proposition. An argument could be made against throwing away diapers and incontinence material but considering all of the other putrid, toxic waste going to the dumps I hardly think that human waste would make the situation much worse as long as it's sealed and not odorous. My environmental impact is incredibly low. All of my electricity comes from the sun, I only use 5 gallons of water per week, I burn less than 3 gallons of fuel per week, I pick up the trash people leave in national forests, I'm very close to zero-waste, I advocate for positive environmental regulation, and I'm more conscious of my impact than pretty much anyone. Not sure what your issue is with my refilling my water at Walmart, I use less in a week than gets used in 10 minutes from bathroom faucets. Above all, people should have the liberty to purchase land and live within their means as long as they truly aren't bothering others. If someone actually is polluting a neighbor's land that is what the courts should be for. We should be innocent until proven guilty and there's no crime in responsibly living any way you want as long as you aren't intruding on anyone else or violating the land in any way. People like me truly have nothing to hide, the land marshals could come check my land over at any time and I would giddily give them the tour of all my stuff and how I live.
 
Old Today, 12:24 AM
 
4 posts, read 229 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by interloper1138 View Post
Conservation, land stewardship, and resource management are high priorities for Coloradans.

I realize that you would intend on leaving a negligible footprint on your land, but you have to understand that regulations here exist precisely because historically so many others did not. I live in the San Luis Valley - a place that, among other things, is well-known for attracting off-grid'ers and modern-day homesteaders. The people you speak of in Costilla County that have been 'kicked off' are the ones who bought land here knowing that regulations regarding land-use and water existed, but chose to not abide by those regulations because they either figured no one would notice because it's so empty out here, or they simply didn't care because they disagreed with the regulations. In my opinion, these types of people disrespect both the land and their neighbors by choosing to place themselves above the common good. This is a viewpoint shared by many here, and one that spans the political spectrum.

If you find Colorado's regulations to be unreasonable, I would suggest looking into land in Wyoming or Idaho. I think your philosophical views would be more welcomed there and you might be able to find what you're looking for. Good luck.
How is living on the land naturally, composting, growing your own food, etc putting yourself above the common good? That's basically just living an 1800's lifestyle before global warming or environmental issues became serious. I don't think there were any experts back then telling homesteaders "GUYS! THIS LIFESTYLE IS NOT SUSTAINABLE AT ALL AND YOU'RE KILLING THE ENVIRONMENT!"

And how is driving a Hummer, using 200 gallons of water a day, throwing away 5 bags of trash a week, sourcing food from around the world, using coal derived electricity, buying slave wage foreign goods, etc not putting yourself above the common good? There is no question that homesteaders put less pollution into the environment on average compared with the average citizen.

I think you're making assumptions when it comes to why these regulations were put into place in various counties and statewide. Letting a few bad actors strip the liberty away from all people is not a valid argument anyway. By that logic there are a lot of things that should be illegal which are far worse for the environment. I guess we also need to make alcohol illegal again because some people get on the road and kill people. Maybe we should make all fossil fuel burning engines illegal because a few bad people hollow out their catalytic converter. The goal should be to reduce harm in the world, not oppress perfectly reasonable people who wish to live a low-impact frugal life.
 
Old Today, 01:46 AM
 
Location: on the wind
5,820 posts, read 2,278,012 times
Reputation: 20031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiz View Post
How is living on the land naturally, composting, growing your own food, etc putting yourself above the common good? That's basically just living an 1800's lifestyle before global warming or environmental issues became serious. I don't think there were any experts back then telling homesteaders "GUYS! THIS LIFESTYLE IS NOT SUSTAINABLE AT ALL AND YOU'RE KILLING THE ENVIRONMENT!"

And how is driving a Hummer, using 200 gallons of water a day, throwing away 5 bags of trash a week, sourcing food from around the world, using coal derived electricity, buying slave wage foreign goods, etc not putting yourself above the common good? There is no question that homesteaders put less pollution into the environment on average compared with the average citizen.

I think you're making assumptions when it comes to why these regulations were put into place in various counties and statewide. Letting a few bad actors strip the liberty away from all people is not a valid argument anyway. By that logic there are a lot of things that should be illegal which are far worse for the environment. I guess we also need to make alcohol illegal again because some people get on the road and kill people. Maybe we should make all fossil fuel burning engines illegal because a few bad people hollow out their catalytic converter. The goal should be to reduce harm in the world, not oppress perfectly reasonable people who wish to live a low-impact frugal life.
Your OP didn't happen to mention anything about this idyllic low impact lifestyle...no composting, sustainable agriculture, producing your own energy, everything you need. Nothing other than driving your ICE vehicle, parking in campgrounds with facilities built, maintained, and paid for by others, and how to get rid of YOUR sewage without having to invest in an engineered septic system. All you are doing is passing the buck along to someone else. A homesteader knows you can't spread your own primary sewage on crops especially if you plan to earn income selling them to anyone. You are buying who knows what chemical material and packaging to solidify body waste and dumping it in large scale landfills instead of bioprocessing it on site. Low impact? In the sense that you don't have to consider where it goes after you dump it. Everyone else can live in filth as long as it doesn't affect you. You seem to be driving from here to there until they kick you to the curb. Just what are you producing, conserving, or re-purposing along the way? You are taking advantage of utilities and facilities and paying them as little as possible for it I'm sure. Off grid? Don't make me laugh. You are buying groceries and potable water from a nationwide retailer who probably buys products from those overseas slave labor sources because they are cheap. I'll bet you expect those campgrounds to dispose of the trash you produce during your stay right? What loss of liberty are you moaning about? Yours or everyone else's who doesn't happen to be able to live as carelessly as you do?

Last edited by Parnassia; Today at 02:03 AM..
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