Is Colorado a violent state? (Denver, Aurora: middle-class, amusement parks, buying)

[tfox]

As tragic as the incidents of gun violence are to the victims and communities involved, and as shocking as such behavior is, it's important to keep in mind that it's also quite rare. Columbine-style incidents are statistically a tiny percentage of violence generally -- most gun violence tends to fall in the more common categories of domestic violence and drug-related crime. The odds of an innocent bystander being the victim of gun violence of any type are quite small. Of course, that doesn't make it any less tragic when it does occur.

Despite all the attention focused on such killings, teenagers (or anyone, for that matter) anywhere are infinitely more likely to be injured or killed in an auto accident than a school shooting. In fact, getting in your car and driving is statistically more much more dangerous than walking the streets alone in he worst neighborhood of the worst ghetto in the country.

[amc760]

I hate to put race into it, and I know im gonna draw a lot of fire for this, but those tragic events became high profile incidents because they took place in middle class white areas, in a school setting.

Isolated incidents like those don't compare to the people that die everyday in the inner-cities of america. They are just more tragic and newsworthy because they are completely random with lots of innocents killed. In a nice part of town.

But i dont think its fair to assume the area is dagerous because of a few lunatics who destroyed peoples lives.

[RangerDuke08]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

3. The socially dysfunctional, usually middle class screwed up kids and young adults. These are usually the kids whose parents pretty much ignored them, except for giving them plenty of money to buy whatever would make them feel good--cars, drugs, guns, etc. The perps at Columbine were the perfect personification of this genre. They were not "home-boys" from the hood, but materially spoiled brats from an middle/upper class neighborhood going to a middle/upper class high school. Unfortunately, there are plenty of these types still percolating out in the 'burbs all across America. I attended a suburban high school in the Denver area way back when, and I knew a couple of kids that could have quite easily gone down that road had they gotten their hands on some serious firepower and been pushed just a little too far. One of them did wind up in the pen for murder in his early '20's--no surprise to me there.

Lived all over the U.S. and I can tell you CO is one of the safest places hands down! Columbine happened in littleton, which isn't the real world, it's one of those places in Colorado that came after the suburban sprawl, when we were growing up and had any problems, my parents would beat it out of me. Kids nowadays, especially in Colorado seem to have a lot of social drama and don't know how to deal with it.

A lot of the problems with kids in Colorado is they grow up in a suburbia hell where there's not much to do (they don't go outdoors even though the rockies are here, they rather hang out at malls). Both parents work of course and can't really look after their kids. And they lack discipline and respect for others and themselves. Colorado especially ain't really a place where parents and teachers enforce that, instead it's all about "character building" in Colorado, where if you have something to rage about, if you want to be a hippy or cholo or goth, go and express yourself. Kids in that environment grow up to be very insecure about themselves. And it really doesn't take much to reverse that, just spend some time with your kids, take them outdoors and teach them respect through sports, volunteering, work ethics.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by RangerDuke08

Lived all over the U.S. and I can tell you CO is one of the safest places hands down! Columbine happened in littleton, which isn't the real world, it's one of those places in Colorado that came after the suburban sprawl, when we were growing up and had any problems, my parents would beat it out of me. Kids nowadays, especially in Colorado seem to have a lot of social drama and don't know how to deal with it.

A lot of the problems with kids in Colorado is they grow up in a suburbia hell where there's not much to do (they don't go outdoors even though the rockies are here, they rather hang out at malls). Both parents work of course and can't really look after their kids. And they lack discipline and respect for others and themselves. Colorado especially ain't really a place where parents and teachers enforce that, instead it's all about "character building" in Colorado, where if you have something to rage about, if you want to be a hippy or cholo or goth, go and express yourself. Kids in that environment grow up to be very insecure about themselves. And it really doesn't take much to reverse that, just spend some time with your kids, take them outdoors and teach them respect through sports, volunteering, work ethics.

It may be that way now, but I grew up in Colorado, and It was far from what you are describing in our household. Both of my parents were very stern. We did get to express ourselves, but within a reaonable limit.

[McGowdog]

To RangerDuke;

A lot of these kids that play basketball, football, volleyball,baseball, wrestle, run track, ski, do rodeo, etc. in the area of Green Mountain, Dakota Ridge, Bear Creek, Columbine, Chatfield, Alameda, Wheat Ridge, Arvada, Pomona, Arvada West, Ralston, Conifer, Evergreen, Castle View, Chapparel, Douglass County, Highlands Ranch, Mountain Vista, Ponderosa, Rock Canyon, ThunderRidge, just to name a couple... would differ.

That's just looking at the sporting activities. Many of these kids will probably have a bright future ahead.

Being that this is a Colorado thread and not just a Denver thread, the rest of Colorado (non-Front Range) doesn't make the news much unless there's a fire or something. Ms. Martinez, our prayers to your friends/family in the Ordway/Crowley area. Also to the people in the Turkey Creek area. I'm hoping for a wet spring and not too much wind.

[RangerDuke08]

Originally Posted by Noahma

It may be that way now, but I grew up in Colorado, and It was far from what you are describing in our household. Both of my parents were very stern. We did get to express ourselves, but within a reaonable limit.

And I'm sure you learned respect by the yard stick. Though it ain't like them good 'ol days, parents still gotta teach them kids respect and discipline through other means today.

[Katarina Witt]

This isn't a parenting forum, but there are other ways to make kids behave besides hitting them. My goal in child-rearing was to never spank, which I didn't achieve, but I did limit it and tried other things first.

[inquiz49]

The reason I feel like Colorado has become the "epicenter" of gun violence is that we seem to be the only state that has had multiple shooting massacres within the past decade. And like I said, 2 of them would have been the worst mass murders in U.S. history (except for 9/11) save for the grace of God. It's not just me that notices, I have heard people ask if Colorado is "raising monsters" and "what is wrong with Colorado?" in the wake of these incidents. It just seems like there is a curse on this state or something when these shootings seem to happen now on a semi-regular basis. Colorado is an undeserving state with wonderful people and should not be so ravaged by tragedy, I feel.

[jazzlover]

When parents have the self-centered and hedonistic attitude that their careers, houses, cars, and "stuff" are more important than investing time (not money) in the rearing of their children; and their kids come away with the attitude that what they "have" is more important to them and/or their friends than who they "are," you have the environment conducive to producing the amoral, violent thugs in middle/upper class America that can perpetrate Columbine-like violence.

Does Colorado attract a disproportionate number of those type of hedonistic residents? I don't necessarily think so, but one look across the suburban sprawl of the Front Range tells me that there is huge potential breeding ground out there for the type of violent "perps" like those that "acted out" at Columbine. And even if only one screwed up kid out of 10,000 or even a 100,000 wigs out enough to go on a rampage, that's way more than enough to traumatize a whole community for years.

As a clergy acquaintance of mine said in a sermon one day, "A society without wealth or money is challenged; a society without values is doomed."

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by inquiz49

The reason I feel like Colorado has become the "epicenter" of gun violence is that we seem to be the only state that has had multiple shooting massacres within the past decade. And like I said, 2 of them would have been the worst mass murders in U.S. history (except for 9/11) save for the grace of God. It's not just me that notices, I have heard people ask if Colorado is "raising monsters" and "what is wrong with Colorado?" in the wake of these incidents. It just seems like there is a curse on this state or something when these shootings seem to happen now on a semi-regular basis. Colorado is an undeserving state with wonderful people and should not be so ravaged by tragedy, I feel.

I think you're blowing it way out of proportion and sensationalizing something that those who are affected (parents, friends, fellow-students, etc.) are very aware about.

No. We're not cursed. It's not the altitude. It's not "raising monsters". Whether they were the worst mass murders in U.S. history or not, you go ask the friends, families, surviving victims, etc. about it, and they'll tell you it was the worst thing imaginable regardless of the shear numbers of dead people. Is that's what's important here? How many people died? How many people would have died if the Propane tanks would have went off? How many people would have died if all the bullets would have been fired off? One death is the one that matters to a mother, or a family who lost their dad.

We people of Colorado can share our concern for the folks in Omaha Nebraska, South Dakota, Oklahoma City Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, The Pentagon of Washington D.C., Manhattan New York, Pearl Harbor, a church in Colorado Springs, etc. I don't know what makes a terrorist do what they do. I don't know what makes some guy or group of people decide to get together and kill themselves or decide to inflict their wrath on other people.

I do suspect that they are very small deep down inside and need the notoriety. They love the publicity. They love the press, the Dirty Laundry, and the exposure.

We went to a friend's wedding in the Denver Metro area over the weekend. I'd noticed the flags at half-mass. I asked "why, what happened"? The wife reminded me it was the anniversary of the tragedy in Columbine High School. Then I remembered. Out of respect, I remembered. But let's not beat this thing into the ground.