Relocating! Be my crystal ball! (and yes, ive done my homework!) (Denver: relocation, military)

[preppyglam]

Hello everyone. I am SO glad I came across this board. I need you to be my crystal ball. I will try to give all the info you need to answer my questions. I will put my questions in bold, so they are easy to spot. you can read the filler info if you need it.

WHY CO IS OUR #1 CHOICE:
My husband and I currently live in Orange County, CA. We both have family in CO (denver, vail, castle rock)- but we arent really that close to them and they are much older, so they dont really give us awesome info when we ask questions about a young couple/family relocating. We have only visited colorado a few times to visit these folks- and we really like it. My husband is from Chicago and hates CA. he misses the snow, the cold, the seasons. I am a 3rd generation native californian, and chicago is waaaay too cold and humid for me. Colorado seems to be a nice blend of the two (i know it gets cold- but not chicago cold allll winter). And, with us not being able to afford to start our lives and family in southern CA- we have to leave the state!

ABOUT US:
We are in our late 20's, fairly new to the professional job force. He is an accountant. I am an interior designer. We both have BS/BA's, respectively. He will be working for a firm/company, and I plan to build my client base and work for myself out of a home office once we get to CO- so being close to "money and clients" is VERY important. On his income alone, we will be somwhere in the $70K range since he is fairly new to the job market and isnt yet making what an established accountant makes. my income will grow as my client base grows. plus, there is the fact that im the one who has to have the children! i plan to build my practice when they are young and then work more when they hit school age. So, we will be primarily living on his salary when we get there (he will hit at about 100k within a few years, if that helps the location situation).

We are planning on starting a family once we get out that way- its that time for us. I know "family friendly" places are in HR, CR and the springs. At first, I was thinking Castle Rock, for sure, since its between 2 major metro areas, but reading this for a few days has me questioning if Colo. Springs and Denver are the two areas i want to draw clients from? the springs being a "military town", im not sure of the professional/high income base there. denver is a great draw, but im not sure about the quality of clients that would come from all of the "suburban sprawl". how wealthy are the suburbs, really? Ive read the demographic reports on CR, and they look good on paper- but i want to know how people really live in these suburbs.

plus, the more i read, the more it seems that CR and HR are desert in nature. Can you see the mountains from these places?

Also, I cant be TOO far out of denver since i need to access major design centers that are located in denver (my suppliers, vendors, manufacturers, etc.). ive read about the "commute" from CR to denver, and its totally fine. i can do that and so can my husband (we both sit in 2.5 hours of traffic to LA, when the traffic is bumber to bumper. ANYTHING is better than that!). So proximity to denver is important, but i dont want to be in denver proper- from what ive seen, it not very pretty and the prices are too high for first-time buyers.

Ive been trying to look at a regional map of colorado to see whats about 1 hour away from denver along the 70, rather than the 25. (i think i got these highways right?!). I would like some suggestions. We have family in vail, and i know its pretty far to denver, but whats between vail area and denver? anywhere nice to live?

In your opinion, what are the best markets if i am seeking high income clients? (upper middle class - upper class is my primary market). Im starting to think that maybe I should be somewhere between the mountain resort towns and denver, rather than between denver and the springs. but I could be way off-base, thats why i need your thoughts! Plus, we need to purchase a home, so it has to be affordable for us. I dont mind being in a track home to start (its the most affordable option, we for sure wont be building right when we get there)- but i would like the cookie-cutter house to be somewhat appealing as far as an exterior elevation goes. Ive been looking at local realtor sites who offer photo listings and at newhomes.com to get a feel for whats out there. it seems to be a mixed bag of very ugly and pretty nice.

also, given the choice- we would prefer to see/live around "mountain" trees and wilderness, and not desert/rocks (like CR). but either is okay, really- we can drive to places on the weekends for outdoor fun. i guess my primary concern in being able to grow a residential design practice and provide a good life for my (future) kids.

we arent religious, will that be a problem anywhere?

we DO have a jewish last name, do you think that may be a problem anywhere?

we arent very republican or very democratic- i guess we would be conservative demos or liberal repubs. haha. are there any areas where politics and religion rule?

are there any cities where its harder to run a home office due to hidden taxes and or fees?

with all this info, what would be best for us? i really need some foresight on all of these things! thank you, in advance!

[Charles]

Originally Posted by preppyglam

And, with us not being able to afford to start our lives and family in southern CA- we have to leave the state!

He is an accountant. I am an interior designer. We both have BS/BA's, respectively. He will be working for a firm/company, and I plan to build my client base and work for myself out of a home office once we get to CO- so being close to "money and clients" is VERY important......

So, we will be primarily living on his salary when we get there (he will hit at about 100k within a few years, if that helps the location situation).

We are planning on starting a family once we get out that way- its that time for us. I know "family friendly" places are in HR, CR and the springs. At first, I was thinking Castle Rock, for sure, since its between 2 major metro areas, but reading this for a few days has me questioning if Colo. Springs and Denver are the two areas i want to draw clients from? the springs being a "military town", im not sure of the professional/high income base there. denver is a great draw, but im not sure about the quality of clients that would come from all of the "suburban sprawl". how wealthy are the suburbs, really? Ive read the demographic reports on CR, and they look good on paper- but i want to know how people really live in these suburbs.

plus, the more i read, the more it seems that CR and HR are desert in nature. Can you see the mountains from these places?

Also, I cant be TOO far out of denver since i need to access major design centers that are located in denver (my suppliers, vendors, manufacturers, etc.).
Ive been trying to look at a regional map of colorado to see whats about 1 hour away from denver along the 70, rather than the 25. (i think i got these highways right?!). I would like some suggestions. We have family in vail, and i know its pretty far to denver, but whats between vail area and denver? anywhere nice to live?

In your opinion, what are the best markets if i am seeking high income clients? (upper middle class - upper class is my primary market). Im starting to think that maybe I should be somewhere between the mountain resort towns and denver, rather than between denver and the springs.
we DO have a jewish last name, do you think that may be a problem anywhere?

we arent very republican or very democratic- i guess we would be conservative demos or liberal repubs. haha. are there any areas where politics and religion rule?

are there any cities where its harder to run a home office due to hidden taxes and or fees?

with all this info, what would be best for us? i really need some foresight on all of these things! thank you, in advance!

Lots to digest here.

What is your immediate price range for a home? Would you consider renting first? What would your rental budget then be?

It would be a lot easier to work through your questions once we know where your husband will be working. It's a lot easier to find an acceptable home after you find a job than it is to find an acceptable job after you have found a home.

Gut feeling, Since Denver is so much bigger than any other city you mention, I'd have to say statistically you will find more potential clients there than in the mountain resorts.

Castle Rock would be a candidate - though it is about 40 minutes from downtown. The entire southern side of the Denver metro is filled with higher average median income demographics (Highlands Ranch, Parker, Lone Tree, Castle Rock, Castle Pines). I am not familiar with the internal central Denver metro or the northern side of Denver metro so the same situation could exist there. Yes you can see the mountains from just about any of those subdivisions in the Denver metro. I would think that he as an account would have the most opportunities living near Denver, not only for job A but for Plan B, and Plan C when it is time to change jobs. Colorado Springs is smaller and therefore would have less high income population. Castle Rock is in between Colorado Springs an Denver so you'd have the advantage of access to two metros. The other smaller towns you mention will have lots of wealthy people but the numbers are so small compared to Denver it makes statistical sense to focus on Denver. I don't have data to back this up - just a hunch. I may be wrong. You probably need to get actual IRS data from some database and analyze them. I wouldn't make such a huge decision based on hearsay responses from City-Data.

Later in life when you want to build the idealistic home in the trees and mountains be careful about raising kids in sparsely populated, low density communities. There will be few kids to play with. Big hassle. Stay with the conventional subdivisions that have 1/2 acre lots or something like that.

The Jewish last name is irrelevant.

I don't think the lack of religious interest is a big deal.

Can't answer the hidden fees/taxes question - I just don't know.

The local impact of politics and religion would never outweigh the geographical importance of picking a good location to do business and live.

[SheridanL]

Welcome,

Like Charles said, what is your home price?

I think Evergreen would be a great choice!

[TropicanaRose]

I think you'll be best off somewhere in Denver. You can find a place that you like and can afford, and you won't be too far from the more well to do suburbs.

Your husband needs to have a job before you move here. Competition is fierce and even for someone with outstanding qualifications, it can take quite awhile. He should get a local cell # and a local mailing address (maybe one of those relatives can help out, otherwise, rent a mailbox). He will probably need to travel here for interviews, and you should not expect relocation assistance. It does happen now and again, but usually not for the more junior positions.

I live in Boulder, a very affluent university town north of Denver. I don't know how things are feeling in upmarket Denver, but I am not seeing much belt-tightening around here. Lots of kitchen redos, new cars, etc. People are still decorating, but as with everything else, talented people are a dime a dozen around here. I'm wondering if you should focus on the fanciest suburbs, where it might be harder to break in, or whether you might be better off in an area where people are buying and redoing older homes, like The Highlands, or even Washington Park (although not sure how many places are left to redo there!). If you look for something along the light rail it will make for a lot of easy commute options should things change down the road.

There will be some jerks everywhere, but I would say that a Jewish last name and lack of religious affiliation will be less of an issue on the Front Range than anywhere else, with the possible exception of some social circles in the Springs (and I really do think Denver is better for you professionally).

Oh, we don't say "the 25" and "the 70" here But I won't tell you how to do the secret handshake until you are paying taxes here.

I would spend a couple of weekends out here on your own without relative obligations to cramp your style (Southwest has some cheap flights, and often United E-fares are pretty good) and see what parts of the Denver metro area you like the best. Ultimately, you'll have to choose something that works for whatever job your husband ends up taking and go from there.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by TropicanaRose

I think you'll be best off somewhere in Denver. You can find a place that you like and can afford, and you won't be too far from the more well to do suburbs.

I live in Boulder, a very affluent university town north of Denver. I don't know how things are feeling in upmarket Denver, but I am not seeing much belt-tightening around here. Lots of kitchen redos, new cars, etc. People are still decorating, but as with everything else, talented people are a dime a dozen around here. I'm wondering if you should focus on the fanciest suburbs, where it might be harder to break in, or whether you might be better off in an area where people are buying and redoing older homes, like The Highlands, or even Washington Park (although not sure how many places are left to redo there!). If you look for something along the light rail it will make for a lot of easy commute options should things change down the road.

I agree with everything TropicanaRose has said (abbreviated here), and I would add: I have read that since people are not moving to fancier houses as much, they are upgrading the house they have. I, too, don't have the answer as to where in the metro to relocate, but I'd definitely focus on metro Denver, which does include Boulder (albeit reluctantly on the part of everyone, LOL).

[Sonsglow]

Question 1: I would not suggest Castle Rock, mostly because it is out of the way of both Denver and the Springs, and while many people are settling down there it can be very expensive in terms of both housing and the cost of living. Not somewhere I would recommend if you are looking to start a business rather than flourish an established one.

Question 2: The wealth in Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Parker, Greenwood Village, and down to Castle Pines and Castle Rock is not exaggerated. That area seems to have a very big pull for the "well-to-do".

Question 3: You can see the mountains from almost every suburb in the metro area, including ever city which I have mentioned thus far.

Question 4: If you are not dead set on sticking to I70 west of Denver, I would highly recommend looking into the very developing northern part of the metro area. Broomfield is a great city/county which is only 20 minutes north of downtown Denver via I25 and about 10-15 minutes north of I70 via I25. Broomfield, in my opinion, is a great option as there is a lot of growth and development in this city. The median house value in Broomfield is above average for north metro Denver and continues to rise (the house I currently live in was purchased for $165k in 1999 and is now estimated at nearly $300k). Broomfield has no real run-down areas and truly has a FANTASTIC sense of community. The city is filled with parks, open space, schools, and multiple public centers (2 recreation facilities, a water park, library, event center, amphitheater, etc) To top this off, the development directly north and within Broomfield is booming with growing families and young professionals who have a higher expendable income than most other areas (outside of the Highlands Ranch, etc area) in the state (there is also a good sized tech center (Interlocken) located in Broomfield as well as a small airport (Rocky Mountain). In addition to being a great place for developing professionals and families, Broomfield is VERY central to both downtown Denver and Boulder - and in Boulder there is a lot of renovation and remodeling of older homes, while in the LoDo area of Denver there is a seemingly endless stream of new housing being built (apartments, condos, lofts - all very high end for the upper calss) as well as old warehouses being renovated into housing for the same demographic. Not far from LoDo is The Highlands where old homes are being turned into McMansions. Broomfield is 30 minutes from Boulder and 20 minutes from Denver with easy access to I25 and US36, as well as US76, US270, and I70 via I25. I know I just poured out a wealth of information to you, but over the last few years Broomfield has been one of the fastest growing cities in the United States and I would highly recommend it to anyone, and also it has a beautiful view of the Flatirons and Longs Peak.

Question 5: I touched this in my last answer, but I think you could find a good amount of business in Boulder, especially if you can find a way to market to the "earth-conscious" buyer. Also LoDo (Lower Downtown) and The Highlands (20 minutes away on the east side of I25 across from LoDo ) are currently overwhelmed with new upper-class residences. Really the entire area encircling Downtown Denver is developing a more wealthy, affluent community.

Question 6: In all honesty, the only area I would see your not being religious as an issue would be Colorado Springs, and to a lesser degree, perhaps, the Highlands Ranch area as it is a conservative hub of Colorado and home to a plethora of "mega-churches".

Question 7: A Jewish last name would not work against you here, and in certain areas (Cherry Creek, Wash Park, the University of Denver area) if you are indeed Jewish, could actually help you.

Question 8: Politics and religion rule in Colorado Springs in a very conservative way, and as I said, to a lesser degree in south metro Denver in the Highlands Ranch area. Most of the metro state is relatively moderate though. However, Boulder would be more on the opposite side of the spectrum than Colorado Springs in the sense that it is very liberal, green, etc.

Question 9: As I have already illustrated quite a bit, I would highly recommend giving Broomfield a thorough looking into, as I feel it really may be just what you are looking for!

I'm a Colorado native and I am very familiar with the large majority of the metro area. If you have any further questions or want an elaboration on anything I typed feel free to ask!

-jay

[preppyglam]

Yes, I know it was a lot of info...thanks for reading and responding!

Yes, we are planning on renting for the first few months- but I want a sincere plan to find "the place" since my husband sort of depends on me to do this type of research. (I don't mind, though) Since its such a big move, all of our "Stuff" will come out when we get into a house. For that reason, I want to occupy an apartment for as short a time as possible. Since our current rent is $1500 for a one bedroom, that price range for a rental is okay once we get out there.

As far as home prices...anywhere up to about $350,000. $400,000 if we REALLY like the house/area/etc. But closer to 350K is the goal. We are looking for a single family or a townhouse/patio house. We are fine with not having a yard and all that to take care of (especially since we havent had one as a couple in CA, it may be a huge adjustment to all the sudden have property to take care of!). As long as there are parks to walk the dogs and take (future) little kids to - I think we wouldnt mind a patio house/town house set up. Especially if it has more character than a single family home with little or no character (i.e. too cookie cutter) in the same price range.

[preppyglam]

great info! thank you all very much!

i will for sure start researching evergreen and broomfield. also, i had no idea boulder was wealthy (ive mostly heard its liberal and green)- good to know. coming from CA- i really only know of aspen and vail as wealthy little hubs. ive got a lot to learn! (at least i realize this, right?) =)

thanks for your time!

[preppyglam]

thank you! great info, i really appreciate it!

[tfox]

Originally Posted by preppyglam

In your opinion, what are the best markets if i am seeking high income clients?

Well, city-data is going to definitely help you in determining the answers to your questions, as you can look up all the data. The truly wealthy live anywhere they want to live, but they do tend to cluster in Boulder, parts of Central Denver (Cherry Creek, Country Club, Belcaro, Hilltop, etc), Cherry Hills Village, and parts of Greenwood Village. The mountains and foothills, of course, also have a number of wealthy people seeking that lifestyle.

On the other hand, Highlands Ranch and Castle Rock are both solidly middle-class to upper middle class, and definitely are full of "millionaires next door," but hardly thought of as a millionaires' playground. It's more full of families who are seeking newer homes and good schools, that sort of thing. Castle Rock, for its part, is considerably cheaper than most of the south metro so attracts a lot of people for whom long commutes are no issue but housing costs are.