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Old 05-22-2008, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim View Post
Or do west slope towns in the 4,000 ft elevation range (I'm thinking of Grand Junction here) have the most relatively "mild" climate?
I think I heard they have some vineyards over there. Must be relatively warm and mild for that, I imagine.

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Old 05-22-2008, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim View Post
First off, "Colorado" is a square box drawn over about 100,000 sq miles of land. It's not one climate. Parts of the west slope have a high-desert climate similar to much of Utah. The high country has an alpine climate with conditions similar to the northwoods way up in Canada. Actually, even within the high country not all climate/vegetation is the same. Crested Butte isn't the same thing as Arapahoe Basin, for example. There are climates like the San Luis valley in southern CO which are like extremely high deserts with little precipitation and DRAMATIC differences between day and night temperatures. Places like Alamosa regularly clock in -30 and lower at night in the dead of winter. The urbanized front range is kind of a microclimate(s) of its own, with more mild weather than the mountains to the west or the wide open plains to the east. But within the front range, it's not the same; Denver gets a lot more snow than Colorado Springs, which gets a lot more snow than Pueblo, for example. And the eastern plains is a climate of extremes-- extreme cold, extreme heat, extreme tornadoes, extreme blizzards, extreme wind-- conditions that make Denver look tame.

There are places in Colorado with over 300 days of sunshine, but if you have in mind "Denver" when you say Colorado's climate, you're incorrect. The tiresome thread on the Denver forum pretty much proved myth wrong on this page: "I HATE this weather!". Denver gets somewhere between 245 and 250 sunny and partly cloudy days a year, depending on what source you ask. I've lived in Arizona before (Phoenix) and anybody who's ever lived in the true desert southwest knows that Denver is NOT as sunny as people there claim it is. Phoenix gets 310 sunny and partly cloudy days a year-- 2 extra months worth of sun than Denver gets. That's no small difference. I think any intelligent person without some hidden agenda should seek to learn the truth and not perpetuate Chamber of Commerce lies. In that regard I agree with the poster of the Denver weather thread, and I agree with jazzlover (surprsingly ). But given that, I'm starting to love Denver's weather more and more. I like the fact that most days are not perfectly sunny with no clouds in the sky, like Arizona, but rather are partly cloudy with beautiful puffy cumulous clouds floating across the sky in an ever changing mix. Just watching the skies in Denver, or anywhere on the eastern plains can be quite amazing.

Jazzlover, since you brought the subject up, I'm curious-- I agree with you that no part of Colorado has a true "mild" climate, but where in Colorado has the most "mild" climate relatively speaking-- defined by the least temperature fluctuations and the least amount of severe weather? I've heard people refer to Canon city as the "Banana Belt" of Colorado-- is that true? Or do west slope towns in the 4,000 ft elevation range (I'm thinking of Grand Junction here) have the most relatively "mild" climate?
Good post, vegaspilgrim. "Mild" means different things to different people. The climate of Colorado's west-central valleys (including Grand Junction) is one of the less "violent" areas of the state, along with relatively mild temperatures winter and summer. Palisade has one of the longest frost-free periods in the state. But, it can get quite hot in summer, and--if some snowcover is present in winter--can get fairly cold in winter and stay that way for some time.

Canon City probably has the most mild temperatures overall--winter and summer--of anywhere in Colorado. A little cooler than the western valleys in summer, and little warmer in winter--but, much more prone to violent thunderstorms and flash floods in summer. Also, a little more snow in winter than the western valleys, but--with the Chinook winds--it usually doesn't stay around long. Conversely, the western valleys don't get much snow in winter, but if they do get a bunch at once, the lack of the Chinook winds means it may stay on the ground for some time.

So, both places can be called "mild" for Colorado. Neither has anything close to a "southern California" climate, contrary to what (apparently) quite a few people expect.

vegaspilgrim, I'm impressed at your knowledge of Colorado climate and weather. Ever thought of a career as a meteorologist or climatologist? Or you could turn into a curmudgeon Colorado climate and weather lover like me. Perish the thought!

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Old 05-22-2008, 07:57 PM
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This is more of a vegetation/geology question than a climate question, but because they're interrelated, why does Crested Butte look so different than other areas of the Colorado high country above 10,000 ft? The land there looks so much more "open," smoother, and more barren, with tons of aspen clusters and very little pine trees. I attached two photos I took, one of Crested Butte, one of Silverton (an example of what I think of as more "typical" high country scenery). Do aspen trees thrive in particular types of weather conditions? Last summer I took an amazing road trip through Colorado and New Mexico (route taken included US highways 285, 50, 550, 84) and saw places I hadn't seen since I was a little kid, kind of reinvigorating my interest in Colorado. I think it took four years of living in Arizona to understand how different weather can be depending on what region you're in. Growing up, I never thought much of the "weather" at all-- weather is weather; it's not really anything to complain about or sing about.
Attached Thumbnails
anybody-left-who-still-thinks-colorado-crestedbutte.jpg  anybody-left-who-still-thinks-colorado-silverton-2.jpg  

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Old 05-22-2008, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim View Post
This is more of a vegetation/geology question than a climate question, but because they're interrelated, why does Crested Butte look so different than other areas of the Colorado high country above 10,000 ft? The land there looks so much more "open," smoother, and more barren, with tons of aspen clusters and very little pine trees. I attached two photos I took, one of Crested Butte, one of Silverton (an example of what I think of as more "typical" high country scenery). Do aspen trees thrive in particular types of weather conditions? Last summer I took an amazing road trip through Colorado and New Mexico (route taken included US highways 285, 50, 550, 84) and saw places I hadn't seen since I was a little kid, kind of reinvigorating my interest in Colorado. I think it took four years of living in Arizona to understand how different weather can be depending on what region you're in. Growing up, I never thought much of the "weather" at all-- weather is weather; it's not really anything to complain about or sing about.
There is a pretty good dividing line in Colorado between what most naturalists call the "Southern Rockies" and the "Central/Northern Rockies." Though it is an imperfect boundary, US Highway 50 is a pretty good dividing line. One of the biggest differences in the two climate regimes is in summer precipitation, with the Southern Rockies being more influenced by the Southwest Monsoon and the Central/Northern Rockies much less so. So, the Southern Rockies get more summer precipitation and the Central/Northern Rockies less. In mid-elevation areas of the Rockies, aspen tends to be the more dominant "sub-climax" species of tree in the Southern Rockies, and lodgepole pine in the Central/Northern Rockies. You will find relatively few large stands of lodgepole south of US 50 in Colorado, while it is very common from there north all the way into Canada.

The San Juan Mountains are somewhat unique in that they are far west enough to catch quite a bit of winter moisture from the Pacific (similar to a lot of the Central/Northern Rockies), but far enough south to catch a lot of the Southwest Monsoon in summer. That makes them kind of a "garden spot" for both aspen and coniferous forests. That, and their geography and geology make them a very special place (where not nearly enough is being done to protect them from crap development) in the Rocky Mountains.

The Crested Butte area, though north of US 50 has characteristics of both the Southern and Central/Northern Rockies. It gets a fair amount of summer precipitation (which encourages aspen), but is drier than the San Juans in summer and is generally much colder in winter. In such colder regimes, especially in Wyoming as an example, aspen will grow in protected areas and on slopes where the temperatures are a little warmer and more moisture accumulates, and sagebrush will grow in the colder, drier, more exposed locations. That happens a lot around Gunnison and Crested Butte. One other thing, in the Southern Rockies, aspen are often the "pioneering" trees, colonizing areas where the coniferous forest has been logged or burned off. In the Central/Northern Rockies that duty often falls to the lodgepole pine. A lot of he coniferous forest around Silverton (and Telluride) was logged off during the early mining days. Also, huge forest fires burned through most of the San Juan mountain region during 1879. Aspen colonized a lot of that, but some areas (around Cumbres Pass on the Colorado/New Mexico border, for example) have never re-forested. Logging, though it occurred, wasn't as big around Crested Butte.

A great book I have cited in another thread describes all of this quite well. It is A Sierra Club Naturalist's Guide: The Southern Rockies, by Audrey DeLella Benedict. It is out of print, but probably can be found used at AbeBooks: New & Used Books, Textbooks, Rare & Out of Print Books or Amazon.

By the way, vegaspilgrim, I know what you mean by the contrast. I've spent a lot of time in and around both Silverton and Gunnison/Crested Butte over the years. Lived in Gunnison for several.

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Last edited by jazzlover; 05-22-2008 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:06 PM
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i love the route 550 from durango up to silverton pretty country up there beautiful

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Old 05-22-2008, 11:37 PM
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Thanks for your detailed explanation, jazzlover. You definitely have a wealth of knowledge! I did not know that about aspen trees. I'm going to add that book to my reading list. I wouldn't call myself a "curmudgeon" (I had to look that word up), but I do think climate is a fascinating topic to study.

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Old 05-23-2008, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim View Post
Denver gets somewhere between 245 and 250 sunny and partly cloudy days a year, depending on what source you ask. I've lived in Arizona before (Phoenix) and anybody who's ever lived in the true desert southwest knows that Denver is NOT as sunny as people there claim it is. Phoenix gets 310 sunny and partly cloudy days a year-- 2 extra months worth of sun than Denver gets. That's no small difference. I think any intelligent person without some hidden agenda should seek to learn the truth and not perpetuate Chamber of Commerce lies.
THANK YOU!

I have no problems with someone liking the erratic climate of Denver. More power to them!

You hit the nail on the head:
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim View Post
I think any intelligent person without some hidden agenda should seek to learn the truth and not perpetuate Chamber of Commerce lies.
What I don't like is the LIE about "300 days" and the LIE about it being "mild". These are terms and statements made by the Chamber of Commerce. They are in the business to draw in more residents and make $$$ by doing so.

Using the Chambers "standards" of at least 1-hour of somewhat visible sun. That would mean Phoenix gets 365 days of sunshine, per that standard.

NOAA states 250 days of sunshine for Denver. I trust them over the Chamber of Propaganda.

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Old 05-23-2008, 12:14 AM
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You've beaten this horse to death in one thread. Do you need to continue to beat it here too?

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Old 05-23-2008, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Today (5/23/2008) should set some kind of record for weather events, weather advisories, and weather warnings across Colorado.

Today there is or has been:

Tornado warnings (with tornadoes)
Severe thunderstorm warnings
Flash flood warnings
High wind warnings
Tornado watch
Severe thunderstorm watch
Flash flood watch
Red flag warning/fire weather watch
Flood advisory
Snow advisory
Wind advisory
Winter storm warning (tonight)

All in one day, all in one state.

As we old Colorado natives like to say, "Just another @#%^&!!!! day in paradise . . . "
It was a CRAZY day. It started off nice but turned ugly fast. So far, one fatality and numerous injuries from those tornadoes. Looking at the damage, it looks like an F3 or MAYBE an F4 but I believe it will be ruled an F3.

They counted EIGHT possible tornadoes but it might drop as the ONE tornado might have lifted and dropped down again. The one twister was ONE MILE WIDE.

The Colorado governor surveyed the damage. It was bad.

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Old 05-23-2008, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
You've beaten this horse to death in one thread. Do you need to continue to beat it here too?
Are you following me? Are you the posting police?

Many topics are repeated on these forums. Some hundreds of times.

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