4-wheeling in the "good old days" (legal, horseback)

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

*SNIP*

Back then, Jeep trails really were nothing more than trails, and were sparsely used. On many trails where today there can be the equivalent of a traffic jam on weekends, one could 4-wheel back in those days and seldom see anyone. One had to be careful about getting stuck on some roads--during the week, it might be a day or two before anyone would come along. Of course, there was no GPS, the Forest Service maps were black and white--often horribly out-of-date, and there was often no signage. One had to be pretty good at common-sense "dead-reckoning" navigation and there will still a fair amount of time spent being "misplaced." ("We ain't lost--we just don't know exactly where we are.") Girlfriends, wives, and kids were recruited to help navigate, open and close gates ("Always leave a gate like you found the g****m thing," the ranchers would say.), set up camp, gather firewood, wash dishes (those old porcelain-covered iron dishes), clean fish, and other assorted tasks. Men drove the Jeep, changed flat tires, got stuck, cussed a lot, and fished. The latter was usually critical because fish were usually counted upon as part of the camp diet--no fish, no dinner entrée. Firearms were usually carried on every trip--a rabbit, sage grouse, or even a poached deer could substitute for fish when necessary.

Most of the folks you met in the backcountry--if you saw anybody--were other locals from the region. You could tell what county they were from by the license plate letters. Meeting another vehicle on the trail usually meant stopping for at least a 10 minute conversation--and possible exchange of certain "supplies"--fish, beer, cigarettes, chewing tobacco, etc.--as needed.

Getting stuck was an expected event. When this happened, shovels, tow chains, sheepherder's jacks, and--if one was lucky enough--the winch ("winch", not "wench"--the wench would usually be deploying lunch while "the men," which usually included any male or tomboy over about 8, were figuring out how to get the vehicle unstuck) would be broken out. If another vehicle happened along--this usually developed into an ad hoc community social event--with much exchange of tools, opinions, strategy, sweat, all blanketed with a fine haze of spirited yelling, cussing, and breaking/fixing of various mechanical parts. Once the vehicle(s) was unstuck, the participants of this event would quench their thirst with a beer (or two, or more) and rehash the whole process among themselves. On a bad road, this might happen several times in a day.
*SNIP*

Nice post Jazz! When I was in HS (in the Parker/Franktown/Elizabeth area) in the days well before the E-470 interchange and the mass amounts of homes in the area now.. I used to get around in a 1976 CJ-5. Man I miss that thing! We explored old missile silos, some Japanese holding facilities from WWII, Gost towns, Indian sites etc... and of course the dunes out by Mesa Verde. Man I had a good time exploring out there when I was a kid.

Someday I will build up another Jeep, and hopefully before they outlaw all of the off roading where I live these days.

When I lived in Glenwood Springs we used to run to Moab every now and again to check out the high desert. Good times!

Do they still have the ice races at Georgetown lake? I have fond memories of that as well.

-TW-

[coredneck]

I haven't done 4x4'ing in a long time. One post on not being able to find a "spartan type" of 4x4 vehicle, you cannot find them anymore on the new market. I own a '91 Toyota P/U 4x4 and I am not too inclined to part with it until I can find a replacement that is 1997 model year or older.

[steveindenver]

The first time I saw a $40,000 Range Rover, I just shook my head and wondered what the point was. You can't go 4-wheeling or you might scratch it.

Nothing wrong with that.

Having grown up with CJ-5 and 7's, worked my way through a couple of FJ-40's (there was a F-250 tree basher in there too) into the modern age, I will say there are aspects to the old trucks I miss, but convenience in the new rigs that I love.

Toyota still makes a decent off-road vehicle in the 4runner. Approach and departure angles seem to get a little worse with each generation but they do still offer a rear locker from the factory. Land Rover made a very capable factory truck in the first Disco's. The newer Range and LR3 models do not come with the proper tires for the serious stuff, but I have seen some impressive feats with the right driver/tire in those too.

[Pilot1]

What ever happened to the spartan/utilitarian nature of 4x4s?

I'm a bit of a purist, so I think the last "real" spartan 4x4 was the Jeep Wrangler TJ (1998 - 2006). I'll never sell mine and it will become a dedicated wheeler at some point.

[ryanek9freak]

Originally Posted by Pilot1

I'm a bit of a purist, so I think the last "real" spartan 4x4 was the Jeep Wrangler TJ (1998 - 2006). I'll never sell mine and it will become a dedicated wheeler at some point.

Don't think that the new JK Wrangler isn't as capable as the TJ was.

I've wheeled a bone stock '08 Rubicon pretty hard and it never once let me down.

With a lift and bigger tires, it would be unstopable.

That being said, there is no more capable vehicle than my '51 Willys pickup.


Can barely get out of it's own way, but man will that thing crawl.

[Sockeye]

Those old Ford Broncos with the steering column shifters- a practical idea- were pretty tough, too. The original Toyota FJ Land Cruisers were brutes, too, especially when retrofitted with a small block Chevy 350. Cupholders would've been useless 4- wheeling those things around. You'd be wearing your beer.

[Idunn]

My grandfather had an old Jeep in standard faded red; it wasn't a Willies, but only slightly newer. In southern Colorado at the time it was a common sight to see an old Jeep parked in someone's driveway, usually alongside a much newer sedan used as the primary vehicle. This was before Jeep widened and lowered their vehicles to suite lawyers; they were narrow with a high center of gravity, but geared to go practically anywhere off road.

My grandfather lived to see the closing of many forest roads and restriction of vehicles to those left. But he had seen an age when people pretty much went where they pleased, although in that day with understanding and respect. Well, maybe not always, as some 'trails' were ill advised from the outset. But gates were invariably closed and property respected.

It was a different age and time.

[jazzlover]

The Wrangler Rubicon mentioned earlier is just about the only factory-equipped 4-wheel drive today that, "out of the box," actually is capable of decent performance on truly rough backcountry trails. Some of the others that come close--like Hummers (except that the H1 and H2 are far too wide to traverse most narrow Colorado mountain trails), the "new" Toyota Land Cruiser, the Nissan Xterra, etc.--are somewhat capable, but sacrifice durability with problem-prone independent front suspensions, needlessly complicated 4WD engagement systems, and other mechanical complexities. They have compromised durability and performance for convenience and comfort. I guess that's fine until you're broken down or stuck 20 miles from town with no cell service. Then, the 12 cupholders, killer stereo, and cushy ride aren't worth a s***. Another case of Americans being sold a bunch of fluff and bull**** instead of a tool capable of doing the job for which it is intended. Well, maybe that's not right, since most people buying a 4WD wouldn't know how to engage it if they had to, much less actually driving their vehicle on a backcountry trail.

[ryanek9freak]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

The Wrangler Rubicon mentioned earlier is just about the only factory-equipped 4-wheel drive today that, "out of the box," actually is capable of decent performance on truly rough backcountry trails. Some of the others that come close--like Hummers (except that the H1 and H2 are far too wide to traverse most narrow Colorado mountain trails), the "new" Toyota Land Cruiser, the Nissan Xterra, etc.--are somewhat capable, but sacrifice durability with problem-prone independent front suspensions, needlessly complicated 4WD engagement systems, and other mechanical complexities. They have compromised durability and performance for convenience and comfort. I guess that's fine until you're broken down or stuck 20 miles from town with no cell service. Then, the 12 cupholders, killer stereo, and cushy ride aren't worth a s***. Another case of Americans being sold a bunch of fluff and bull**** instead of a tool capable of doing the job for which it is intended. Well, maybe that's not right, since most people buying a 4WD wouldn't know how to engage it if they had to, much less actually driving their vehicle on a backcountry trail.

Agreed 100% jazz! The Wrangler is the last 4x4 left that is worth a damn. Thank god that Chrysler hasn't axed the solid front axle yet (as they did with that abortion, the Liberty, and recently, Grand Cherokee)

Independent front suspension is a big bag of suck offroad. I recently bought an '02 Ram 1500 4x4, cause I do need a truck, and I traded my 94 Ram 1500 4x4 in on it. My old Ram had solid Dana 60's all the way around, and was built like a tank. I could take that truck anywhere.

My new Ram, although nice, and rides like a cadillac, I wouldn't dare even try to take it offroad. Those lower control arms would snap like twigs.

I don't understand why Dodge had to ruin the 1500. At least the 2500 and 3500 still have solid axles though. Something that Chevy just doesn't get.

[synchro]

Modern?
My newest Jeep ( 1977 CJ5 lifted and locked with 4.56's) will definitely outdo
my last Jeep (1959 Willys Overland with the Hurricane 6). But the '59 was
at least still driveable on pavement. The '77 will need a trailer to go anywhere
but the property, where it does a great tractor imitation.
"good old days"? A 1969 Toyota Corolla followed by a 1966 Baja Bug did great
work with the trails around Durango, Silverton, Telluride, Ouray, and Lake City.