Former SoCal residents: What brought you to Colorado? (Denver, Colorado Springs: transplants, rent)

[vfrpilot]

We moved to Monument from San Marcos, CA in 2004. I spent a LOT of time here in '03 & '04, so I was kinda familiar with the area before we decided to move. The schools in North San Diego County were the biggest factor in our decision. We are very happy with the school that our daughter attends now in Monument. Not everything is perfect here. I enjoy the winter weather here, but it's hard to beat the weather in San Diego, especially in the winter. We visit at least twice a year and can't wait to get back to CO. The traffic and crowds are really noticeable to us now. I am afraid we have merged into life's slow lane and don't enjoy the hyper pace of SoCal anymore

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by vfrpilot

... We visit at least twice a year and can't wait to get back to CO. The traffic and crowds are really noticeable to us now. I am afraid we have merged into life's slow lane and don't enjoy the hyper pace of SoCal anymore

You just hit the nail on the head for me too. It happened to my parents and it's happened to me too. Maybe someday, it will happen to Mrs. McGowdog too. I've merged into life's even slower lane south of civilization which is the Front Range.

[RangerDuke08]

Originally Posted by bugsy714

Ouch!

I have noticed a lot of Coloradans with this same "view", why? I would never say that to someone coming from Colorado to California. Not everybody from California takes on the stereotypes that you might have heard. =)

Something you might not know is for every 100,000 Californians who move to Colorado there are also about 50,000 Coloradans who move to California (State to State migration flows 2000 census).

I think the simple rule of thumb is for anyone considering in-migrating to another state is don't move to get away from what you don't like but move to what you do like - sure we do have less traffic here for example, but there is still traffic, housing may be cheaper but your probably going to take a paycut from lalaland, if you simply love the Rockies and the vibe in Colorado, move for that - which will make you happier in the long run than moving to get away or avoid something.

[motoracer51]

Originally Posted by RangerDuke08

Something you might not know is for every 100,000 Californians who move to Colorado there are also about 50,000 Coloradans who move to California (State to State migration flows 2000 census).

I think the simple rule of thumb is for anyone considering in-migrating to another state is don't move to get away from what you don't like but move to what you do like - sure we do have less traffic here for example, but there is still traffic, housing may be cheaper but your probably going to take a paycut from lalaland, if you simply love the Rockies and the vibe in Colorado, move for that - which will make you happier in the long run than moving to get away or avoid something.

I wonder how many of that 50,000 that move to Cali are former Californicators that for some reason or another, decided to move back to the liberal utopia of California?

[jkanderson521]

My wife and I moved to Highlands Ranch in October 2007. I am a former lifetime Californian 29 years. Born and raised in Orange County, I have seen the decline over my lifetime remembering what things were like when I was in school and what they are now.
I have lived in some of the best communities (Newport Beach after SB, Santa Barbara Dove Canyon/Coto and finally Ladera Ranch) in SoCal so I should have no complaints, but I am aware of the size and scope of the problems in CA and looking down the road 10-15 years, it doesn't look positive. To be honest, it breaks my heart because I LOVE Orange County and what I remember it to be and am very sad to think of it being lost.

There are many issues why we moved but they can be summed up in the following:

Cost of living
State management
Socioeconomic

The real estate runup has had a long term negative effect in that there has been a migration in the creative class (educated professionals) in my age cohort over the last couple of years. CO, along with others have been the beneficiaries of that migration as we decided that making 120K and only being able to afford a tiny condo and paying through the roof for everything else was unnacceptable and not a way to build weath.

State Management - The state is terribly run. Enormous deficits, punishing tax rates (err. "progressive") for producers, stealth taxes on everything (anyone consider the absurd "CA CRV") Prop 13 while helping Grandma, should have been amended to exclude second homes and "investment property" thus starving the state of revenue while making it difficult for young people to purchase a home, only a few who actually live in the home should benefit from Prop 13.

Socioeconomic - Having lived in Santa Barbara for a while, it was the most beautiful 3rd world country I have ever seen. Why 3rd world? Because it only really has two classes left, the rich (and super rich) and the poor who serve them. The middle class is mostly gone from SB. The schools are garbage and some schools in decent areas have a less than 50% literacy rate...shameful. Unchecked and encouraged illegal immigration have seriously degrated many social services in the state as most consume more in benefits than they contribute to the system. Many are wonderful hard working people, they are simply exploited for profit by businesses who are able to subsidize their profit at my tax expense. Its wrong and happening everywhere, there is just less of it in CO as opposed to CA.

Would we move back even if prices were similar? No, as much as I love what I see as Orange County, it is becoming a fading memory that will likely not exist in the future (I could be wrong and I hope that I am). However the quality of life we have here in Highlands Ranch is what we loved in South OC without many of the massive problems facing CA. We have lots of friends and family in OC and fly there about 5-6 times a year. There are many things we miss, but overall CO is a perfect choice for us and we don't regret our choice at all.

If CO became a CA with all the same problems, we would probably move again, there is more to life than simply money. Yes we want a certain standard of living, but there will always be good places out there for those who are willing to find it and make sacrifices to get there. That being said, I think that the South Dever metro area is one of the best places in the country to live and I feel very blessed to have the opportunity to be here.

EscapeCalifornia, our best to you, I hope you find what you are looking for and as a native Californian and former OC'er I think you would feel right at home in Highlands Ranch (It was originally desiged by the Mission Viejo Co).

Hope this helps

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by jkanderson521

EscapeCalifornia, our best to you, I hope you find what you are looking for and as a native Californian and former OC'er I think you would feel right at home in Highlands Ranch (It was originally desiged by the Mission Viejo Co).

So, do I have it right that people who move out of California because they are sick of all the traffic and sprawling crap there will feel right at home in Colorado in a development built by the folks who built sprawling crap in California? Am I the only one that sees something a little disingenuous about that? Something like turning Colorado into what you are trying to escape from? Which is exactly what is happening . . .

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

So, do I have it right that people who move out of California because they are sick of all the traffic and sprawling crap there will feel right at home in Colorado in a development built by the folks who built sprawling crap in California? Am I the only one that sees something a little disingenuous about that? Something like turning Colorado into what you are trying to escape from? Which is exactly what is happening . . .

Its a difference of degree. Would you rather be run over by a bicycle or a tank? Either way, you got smacked so there's no difference, right? Try spending a month in SoCal and tell me Denver's just as crowded and sprawling. And those houses in Highlands Ranch are going to be there, occupied, whether I live in one or not.

[jkanderson521]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

So, do I have it right that people who move out of California because they are sick of all the traffic and sprawling crap there will feel right at home in Colorado in a development built by the folks who built sprawling crap in California? Am I the only one that sees something a little disingenuous about that? Something like turning Colorado into what you are trying to escape from? Which is exactly what is happening . . .

Jazz, by all means no, I do not want to replicate CA, CO is unique and special, it has its own vibe that has drawn me and many others here. However, there are some very nice things that I enjoyed living in South OC and I feel that Highlands Ranch's overall layout, cleanliness, community feel, a strong and vibrant middle class, and a host of other reasons mirror some of what was best in Orange County. So in that case yes, I want those redeeming qualities that I enjoyed in OC.

I realize that the family feel of OC-like suburban communities are not for everyone, just like so-called new urbanism is not for everyone. That is the beauty of diversity and freedom, we keep open minds and respect that other people's lifestyle choices may not mirror our own, but we can find communities that we are comfortable and welcomed in. That is the wonderful thing about this country, there is a place for everyone.

Tolerance for our diversity of preference makes for a more interesting world.

That being said, CA is sliding towards a ruinous state because of the ideological hegemony of the ruling elite who dominate the policitical process and have created an intolerable situation for many that has taken CA to the state that is in now.

Understanding that for me, Orange County will always be part of me and what I consider home, I hope it flourishes and prospers, but alas the best decision for my family was to move out and start over (my family has been there for 60 years), though my mom was born in Denver.

We have wildly embraced our adopted home state of CO and love it dearly. My company is relocating its HQ here from CA and will bring $10's of millions of dollars a year to the local economy along with many high paying jobs. There has to be a balance between cherishing the past without sliding into provincialism and fostering an environment that will continue to draw the creative class of people that at one time made CA the economic powerhouse that it is/was.

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

So, do I have it right that people who move out of California because they are sick of all the traffic and sprawling crap there will feel right at home in Colorado in a development built by the folks who built sprawling crap in California? Am I the only one that sees something a little disingenuous about that? Something like turning Colorado into what you are trying to escape from? Which is exactly what is happening . . .

I might be one of the few that sees your point Jazz. I am from California, and the traffic and sprawl were two of the contributing factors to my wanting to leave. I saw the relatively small-town (far-out suburb/exurb maybe), that I grew up in, go from 50,000 people in 1986 to over 150,000 people by the time I left in 2003. I didn't like that people were "Californicating" my town, living there only so they could afford their excessive lifestyle while commuting for hours a day to jobs in LA or Orange County. I moved to Denver with the mindset that I didn't want to live in a place anything like where I grew up. I would never live in one of those master-planned developments, why would I want my lifestyle planned around a post-WW2 concept that never existed? The developers are selling this 50's lifestyle to people, so people can get back to the way it "was", and "oughta be", "or so my kids can grow up the way I grew up, etc".

I don't feel at home in neighborhoods like that, even being in one makes me depressed and makes me want to puke. I made a promise to myself that I'd never live in a home younger than me, and so far I've kept that promise. I currently live in the sprawl-heavy suburb of Aurora, but in a neighborhood built well before my time (1960's), and the further south and east I travel in this town the more my stomach wants to turn. The only reason we live where we do is because of the convenience to work.

I think the folks that move from California to places like Highlands Ranch are doing so for only a few reasons:
-Affordability (compared to Calif.)
-Demographic advantages (so they can mostly be only around people like them, race, income, lifestyle, etc.)--this is more of a tongue-in-cheek thing that most people wouldn't like to admit out loud
-State policy (maybe, but to a far lesser extent)

You could transport any one of these developments to any part of the country and wouldn't be able to tell where you were. If you were to teleport from a 5 year old subdivision in California to one in Colorado you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, unless it was winter time. The only time you'd get a sense of place would be when you LEFT home, which is sad.

As much as I hate sprawl, yes it is going to be there whether I like it or not, but I can do my best to stay out of it, and do my best to not support it. I wouldn't want to be part of such a soulless place, how can anybody believe that they are living an enriched life in such a sterile place? I wouldn't want my kids to grow up in such a place, I would want them to see the real world, not something out of a developer's imagination.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

...anti master planned development rant...

I wouldn't want to be part of such a soulless place, how can anybody believe that they are living an enriched life in such a sterile place? I wouldn't want my kids to grow up in such a place, I would want them to see the real world, not something out of a developer's imagination.

So I don't have a soul and an enriched life unless I choose to live in an old house in a questionable neighborhood within a stone's throw of an auto body shop and a liquor store or in a giant high-rise condo downtown? Wow, talk about judgmental.