Former SoCal residents: What brought you to Colorado? (Denver, Aurora: cul-de-sac, new house)

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

So I don't have a soul and an enriched life unless I choose to live in an old house in a questionable neighborhood within a stone's throw of an auto body shop and a liquor store or in a giant high-rise condo downtown? Wow, talk about judgmental.

Okay, that was a little rough on my end. I'm sorry. I was just trying to rant out my frustrations, I didn't mean to get personal. I just personally find that lifestyle quite boring. To each their own, right?

My house isn't that old, but is 15 years older than me.

I don't think my neighborhood is questionable. I think what would be questionable would be in the mind of the question-asker.

The nearest body shop is 1.34 miles away, the nearest liquor store is 0.47 miles away (per Dex).

I wouldn't want to live in a giant high-rise condo either, unless I was single and/or had no kids and had time/$$$ to take advantage of what downtown has to offer.

[jkanderson521]

Everyone has their own preference of lifestyle and this country is diverse enough to support them all.

David, Highlands Ranch is highly desirable for some and not for others. I am glad you have the freedom to live in a place that is stimulating and vibrant for you. For us, we love it here. We have neighborhood BBQ's frequently in the summer, our children play on the street with a couple of other kids nightly, we sit on our back porch enjoying beautiful sunsets and the majesty of the Rockies. We take walks and hikes on some of the many trails that surround the area. We even take the light rail downtown on the weekends (station is only a few minutes from our house.) These are all things we had not found in an urban environment. I think that is why so many are drawn here, the combination of lifestyle is not what I have found most other places. I never had the ability to easily jump on a lightrail minutes from my home and travel to a downtown. For that matter, other than San Diego, SoCal has no downtown worth traveling to.

I love CO and may it continue to flourish and prosper

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

So, do I have it right that people who move out of California because they are sick of all the traffic and sprawling crap there will feel right at home in Colorado in a development built by the folks who built sprawling crap in California? Am I the only one that sees something a little disingenuous about that? Something like turning Colorado into what you are trying to escape from? Which is exactly what is happening . . .

This I mostly agree with. I think it's highly ironic to complain about sprawl and traffic in California but then move to Highlands Ranch, or even more emblematic-- Castle Rock or Monument. How many people would it take who also have the same idea of living in Castle Rock and clogging up I-25 as the only way to work every morning before CR doesn't sound so attractive any more? It seems like most Californians moving to Colorado, at least on these forums, all want to move to the same places. In fact, Douglas County and north El Paso county from my observations are VERY similar to inland far north county San Diego and southern inland orange county, just no beach and no in-n-out burgers. I think when you hear Californians say they want to escape California they're often not telling the whole truth; what they're really looking for is an alternative, newer version of California.

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I think the folks that move from California to places like Highlands Ranch are doing so for only a few reasons:
-Affordability (compared to Calif.)
-Demographic advantages (so they can mostly be only around people like them, race, income, lifestyle, etc.)--this is more of a tongue-in-cheek thing that most people wouldn't like to admit out loud

I think David just hit the nail on the head! And it's not even that Denver lacks diversity; it has some really diverse areas, as my photo tours show. But that's not where you hear most of the Californians moving to; it's normally places like Douglas County and far north Colorado Springs, some of the whitest suburbs imaginable. I'd caution some of the posters here to be careful and don't assume that the Californians moving in to Colorado are all liberal; many of them are actually quite conservative, and their choice of Douglas County, one of the most politically conservative counties in the state, indeed is no coincidence.

I'm not against Californians moving to the front range, but I think the reasons they claim and the real reasons are often quite different. I agree with David's advice; if you want to move somewhere, move because of pull factors, because you really want to live in your new destination-- not because of push factors, trying to "escape" something. Interestingly, a lot of the people talking about wanting to get out of California are actually living in some pretty nice areas in California, who don't really even have much to complain about other than high living costs. It normally isn't someone living in Compton that wants to escape the ghetto, its already upper middle class families in places like southern Orange County or the western San Fernando Valley looking for an extra boost. Nothing wrong with that, but you have to be honest with yourself as to the real reasons.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by jkanderson521

Jazz, by all means no, I do not want to replicate CA, CO is unique and special, it has its own vibe that has drawn me and many others here. However, there are some very nice things that I enjoyed living in South OC and I feel that Highlands Ranch's overall layout, cleanliness, community feel, a strong and vibrant middle class...

Looking at this from my perspective, your middle class is my rich elite! Our home in P-Dub had a base price of 89.5 and I'll bet your dining room in Highlands Rance is the size of our living room. Now throw in a one-acre lot and realize our little humble home has 5 bedrooms and a 95% finished basement and 2 and 3/4 baths and an attached 2-car garage, not too shabby. But we dreamed that we were gonna sell and buy up two times by now! That dream ended somewhere between 2001 and 2004. Personally, I think things took a header in 06 when the Congress went Democrat, but I'll leave MY politics out of this.

All I'm saying is that you home costs 3 to 5 times what ours does, but good for you. This IS America. We have THE smallest home on the block, but it's looking pretty smart right now. I'm off to do some yard work. Our goal is to enjoy what we've got and be darn grateful we've even got a home. I couldn't imagine living even in Inglewood. How do people afford a home out there at all? Oh, wait. Many rent. I'm seeing quite a few condos and apts going up in Denver now too.

I'd rather own a home in Southern Colorado then rent in Denver, but that's me.

My company is relocating its HQ here from CA and will bring $10's of millions of dollars a year to the local economy along with many high paying jobs. There has to be a balance between cherishing the past without sliding into provincialism and fostering an environment that will continue to draw the creative class of people that at one time made CA the economic powerhouse that it is/was. No offense Jazz, but ummm. SNAP! How many jobs have you brought to the Front Range this year, Californicator H8rz?

I love parts of California to visit. I'll bet that LA will do just fine. It will evolve and in a way, stay the same. It's like the melting pot within the melting pot. But it's still the United States of America! Allbeit, a Republic...just like Texas.

PS: I'm not calling Jazz a Californicator H8r. I know he's just keepin' it real in here. He's a history guy and probably has more insight to Colorado's future than most. I'm just observing, from an ex-SoCal-Zona boy.

[StealthRabbit]

In the past the main reasons to flee CA was taxation and regulations (especially for business owners), then the earthquakes and fire season would show a period of mass exodus. The lessor reasons were for escaping urban sprawl and commute times (which just got transported like a plague), a few left for 'quality of life issues' and a few from job transplants as their employers fled CA.

I was forced from Colorado 30 yrs ago by the influx of CA equity when the tax law required reinvestment of capital gains on personal residence. CA folks would come into town and the realtors would salivate and sell homes for 3x the price just to save the tax obligation (kind of like the "tax write-off" for interest...). I watched this happen in CO, ID, OR, and WA. It was really absurd and often cloaked in kickbacks, diversion of funds, 'future' remodeling... It is too bad CA didn't restrict outflow of Real Estate $ to something like "the median price of a USA home", and force the remainder to stay invested in CA. That would have feathered the income potential of those who left, retained assets for the state of CA to tax, AND preserved the prices in the west; as WY, MT, ID, WA, OR, AZ, NM, UT all got artificially inflated RE prices and most of us are now having to head to ND or SD for an affordable place to live on a fixed income. The serious crime in equity escape from CA was increased property taxes. Both my parents and grandparents were forced from their farms in CO due to absurd taxation, and now I have suffered the same issue in WA. (I spend $33/day in property taxes, but only $3 / day in food). One of my friends in CO left his equity in CA in the form of a commercial building and it currently provides him with $10,000 / month free cash flow. (this has been a 'cash cow' since 1978 for him !!)

CA has some wonderful climates and terrain that can equal CO, but the 'advanced' legislation of CA (left coast), concentration of jobs, and poorly placed equity (residential homes) makes is painful to live there.

Interestingly the coming 'new' economy (post-energy cost ratchet) may dictate a different community and logistics, and very well may make suburbia living (CA) VERY undesirable and unaffordable. When it costs a zillion dollars to ship your food and consumer goods from overseas AND 20-30% of your income to go and fetch these 'newly' expensive goods, you may get hungry. The pendulum of affluenza may be peaking. When / if I made the move, I would strongly consider "re-localization"; walk to school, jobs, shopping & buy stuff (food / essentials) that is produced locally.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

... why would I want my lifestyle planned around a post-WW2 concept that never existed? The developers are selling this 50's lifestyle to people, so people can get back to the way it "was", and "oughta be", "or so my kids can grow up the way I grew up, etc".

I think you bring up a really good point here. I agree with you. But what's the alternative? How do you get around the red-tape and create something better?

... I currently live in the sprawl-heavy suburb of Aurora, but in a neighborhood built well before my time (1960's), and the further south and east I travel in this town the more my stomach wants to turn. The only reason we live where we do is because of the convenience to work.

I understand what you're saying and it sounds very noble. I'll go a step further and say you ARE adding to the solution and not the problem. But where do you think your water is coming from? I'll tell you where. My back yard. Way down here in Pueblo West. Well, you may be able to pump it from further up-stream, but you swindled it from old-time farmers along the Ark Valley. You went down there during a drought and found them tired and exhausted and scared, and waived some money in their face. You said, "sell the farm and come move to Aurora/ Colorado Springs/etc., and as Jazz would say, and you'll have water to keep your Kentucky Blue-grass and trees green in you 3-car garages.

I don't care if you live in old Aurora or new Aurora, you are fighting with Colorado Springs for limited resources.

You want to contribute to the well-being of Colorado; as I've heard on here before, become an attorney for Water-rights. Or is it too late? I've heard that Kansas whooped us good and it's a done deal. Now Texas has done the same to the Rio Grande and the San Juan Valley; an already hurtin' and depressed area that's been neglected in Colorado.

I think the folks that move from California to places like Highlands Ranch are doing so for only a few reasons:
-Affordability (compared to Calif.)
-Demographic advantages (so they can mostly be only around people like them, race, income, lifestyle, etc.)--this is more of a tongue-in-cheek thing that most people wouldn't like to admit out loud

I'm not going to argue that. There's many good topics and threads on here covering this very thing. And I'll be the first one to say, "I feel strongly both ways."

-State policy (maybe, but to a far lesser extent)

You could transport any one of these developments to any part of the country and wouldn't be able to tell where you were. If you were to teleport from a 5 year old subdivision in California to one in Colorado you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, unless it was winter time. The only time you'd get a sense of place would be when you LEFT home, which is sad.

As much as I hate sprawl, yes it is going to be there whether I like it or not, but I can do my best to stay out of it, and do my best to not support it. I wouldn't want to be part of such a soulless place, how can anybody believe that they are living an enriched life in such a sterile place? I wouldn't want my kids to grow up in such a place, I would want them to see the real world, not something out of a developer's imagination.

Instead of complaining about sprawl, I'd like to see it controlled and perfected. In other words, what's the alternative? Keep your legs crossed is the only immediate one I see! Let's get real here. That or tighten some things up. Nobody has been able to convince the masses of the virtues of this than the former.

All I'm sayin' is that if you DO move into Colorado, be it a "transplant" or a "semi-transplant", or a "native" or a "semi-native" or a REAL NATIVE- a Native American (I have family who are, all I'm saying is let's repeat success here), let's look at the state as a whole and see how we can contribute to the WHOLE state, not just your beloved Front Range. Now I'm really startin' to sound like the "curmudgeon". Also, let's see what the Utes, Arapahoe, Navahoe, etc. nations did successfully here. I know this is not a new idea, but dang. Pinon Canyon, what's your take on that? On the one hand, it looks like more jobs for Pueblo and El Paso County. Am I in support of it because of that? Heck no. Do my politics and socio-economics sway my stance on it? No! Have you been down that way before? To Branson? From Trinidad to Hoehne to Rocky Ford or La Junta? That's the Sante Fe Trail, folks. From Walsenburg to La Junta? Some of you have no idea how beautiful those grasslands are.

Trinidad, I'm telling you. Someday, it may really thrive. Las Animas County is big. Yet, I bet it could more than pull its own weight.

If we give up all of our Colorado Resources for the buck, aka do foolish things... we'll look an aweful lot like East California in a hurry.

PS: nothing against Aurora and Colorado Springs. And I'm no Al Gore here. I pray for water and I believe it comes. I also like to fix a leaky faucet once in a while. In other words, if you pray potatoes, reach for the hoe.

[DESERTDI]

My family and I are in the same boat as a lot of So. Cal. people.We live in the high desert and it used to be a great place to live,work,and bring up a family.But now all we have is alot of gangs moving here.Schools are getting really bad,and the crime rate is higher than LA!We built a beautiful home that is on 5 acres.I thought we would live here forever,but I want out!I want my kids to grow up where it is safe to live and go to good school.I too have been looking at Colorado.We have good friends in Littleton and they love Colorado.They say we would too.I would like to buy some property in the mountains where there's a lake and build a home.We have a custom cabinet shop and need to be close to a town where we can work.I think I have my work cut out for me trying to find the right place to live.Any suggestions?

[McGowdog]

Colorado is one place. Does anyone here realize how beautiful parts of mid and eastern Oklahoma are?

I just mention this because a song is rising to my head...

Well...I believe it's Red River Valley playing backwards.

Land of Milk and Honey! We'll live off the fat of the land! My oldest brother's favorite quote

[jazzlover]

Maybe a good way to put this is that Californians (and others from out-of-state suburbia) aren't wrecking Colorado, their expectations are. They want to live in the same suburban crap that they loathe in California--sprawled auto-dependent suburbs. They want their own "little place" (often not very little) in the mountains--which usually does about as much for the landscape as a half-inch diameter infected zit would do for Heidi Klum's face. They want nice bluegrass irrigated lawns--the hell with the fact that it is irrigated with water expropriated from productive farmers and ranchers, or sucked out of critical wetlands or diverted from formerly free-flowing rivers or pumped from depleting aquifers. They don't want to change at all--they want to do exactly what wrecked much of California, just be able to do it cheaper and in a place not quite as crowded (yet). I find nothing redeeming in that.

In other words, they want theirs, and the hell with what it does to the landscape, the quality of life of others, and especially to anyone who is already here and made the many sacrifices necessary (economic and otherwise) to live in Colorado.

By the way, vegaspilgrim--good post (#33). You, too, McGowdog (#34 and #36).

[McGowdog]

You had me at Heidi Klum. I repped you for that before I even read the props.

Good dawg!