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Old 07-17-2008, 11:01 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,309,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
because the US would not adopt the quite-strict-enough European diesel emission standards, Americans can't buy those vehicles.
I thought the hangup was over sulfur content in the fuel and the US adopted low sulfur diesel last year.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:02 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,357,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rybert View Post
Buddy of mine bought the Escape Hybrid last year... it's done better than he hoped (@32mpg average)... as for the mini-van crowd:

Chrysler to build hybrid minivan? - AutoblogGreen
My next door neighbor bought an Escape Hybrid and sold it after 6 months. He found that, with any hills at all, the thing had to run the gas engine all the time. And, no, the guy is no leadfoot. He never got much better than 26-27 mpg with it. My decade-old 6 cyl. beater SUV will get 25 mpg on the highway if driven judiciously. He purchased a used 4 cyl. sedan for about half what that Escape cost, and he gets close to 40 mpg with it on the highway. A friend who is a Ford dealer told me candidly one day that my neighbor's experience with the Escape Hybrid is pretty typical in Colorado--they have sold very few of them out of his dealership.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Burque!
3,556 posts, read 10,181,837 times
Reputation: 859
Yeah... my buddy lives in the city, so his daily commute is 90% stop-n-go (yielding good mpg numbers).

As for diesels... VW to the rescue (although urea injection may be necessary)! I test-drove a new TDi the other day... it was very nice. Of course if you can find a used TDI... snatch it up!

Here's a link to get those diesel geeks all riled-up:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/06...oupes-the-u-s/
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:15 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,357,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
I thought the hangup was over sulfur content in the fuel and the US adopted low sulfur diesel last year.
Europe has used ULSD fuel for several years. ULSD fuel was phased last year in the US. Unfortunately, the full implementation of EPA "Tier 2" emission standards for model year 2008 are different that the European diesel emission standards. There are only a few automotive diesel models certified for the US market now. 3/4 and 1 ton diesel pickups are covered under another standard, but those have also tightened, and the 2008 models that meet the standards suffer about a 15-20% fuel economy penalty compared to the earlier models. Way to go, EPA.

Word is that manufacturers will be able to get a few more car models to meet the Tier 2 diesel emission standards for model year 2010, but they will likely suffer a fuel economy penalty compared to the European models. I'm all for clean air, but Europe seems to be doing OK with their diesel emission standards, and something like 65% of all automobiles there are diesel-powered. Oh yeah, diesels also emit much less CO2 than a comparable gas engine.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Burque!
3,556 posts, read 10,181,837 times
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All the great architecture in Europe was covered by diesel soot when I visited. You wonder what these great old buildings would look like in a cleaner environment. I know Seville has banned diesel buses from their city center... hoping to stave-off the inevitable.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:37 PM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,321,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Years of cheap fuel has made most Americans into morons in both where they live and what they drive. Those folks are going to discover the folly of both in pretty short order. Bob is absolutely right in saying that people should be worrying about living close to where they work a lot more than trying to trade for a Prius. I now live less than a mile from my work, and I can work from home on some days. Sure does save on fuel.

I tend to keep the vehicles I have bought quite a long time (usually at least 10 years), and I usually buy used. In the last 30 years, I have only bought one vehicle that got worse fuel economy than the vehicle it replaced--one my then-wife wanted. Haven't made that mistake again--wife or car.

It infuriates me that Americans don't have the choices in fuel-efficient vehicles that people in most other countries do--especially diesel-powered vehicles. I have spent much of my life around diesel engines, and today's are better and cleaner than ever, but--because the US would not adopt the quite-strict-enough European diesel emission standards, Americans can't buy those vehicles. We act like a 60 mpg vehicle is pie-in-the-sky for some far-off future day, but Europeans have a wide selection of them to drive right now. And a number of them sold there are made by American auto manufacturers. Just another case where we have our heads up our ***es in this country.

I don't necessarily hate SUV's, either. I have an old 4WD that I keep around for when my work or an occasional backcountry trip requires one. But, for example, it just makes no sense for the likes of some single 20-something childless woman to be driving a 7-passenger SUV back and forth to the gym and tanning salon. That's a marketing job by the auto makers to sell what is profitable to them to a gullible public thinking they are buying "status" or "coolness."

There is a guy in the area that has one of those tiny "Smart cars" . I thought they werent approved yet for USA but guess they are now.

I drive a Cooper as the weather here allows it no snow ever but if I had kids it would be a second car and would go much bigger. I am 5'10' to which makes a Cooper okay but if 6 feet plus would go bigger as you dont have much of a choice .

I think many drive SUVs for safety reasons we were rated most rude/aggressive drivers 2 yrs in a row (06/07) think maybe 3 and they do provide safety that smaller cars dont provide.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Western, Colorado
1,599 posts, read 3,104,828 times
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I drive a Ford F250 Diesel, getting as low as 11mpg when towing.

I can really care less about fuel costs. When I bought the truck, it cost me$60 to fill it. Now it costs me $130 to fill it. $3500 a year in extra fuel isn't even a factor in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,245,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rybert View Post
All the great architecture in Europe was covered by diesel soot when I visited. You wonder what these great old buildings would look like in a cleaner environment. I know Seville has banned diesel buses from their city center... hoping to stave-off the inevitable.
Burning of coal for heating, particularly in the early 20th century, had a lot more to do with soot in Europe's cities than diesel engines.

A small modern diesel, equipped with a catalytic heater, is not the same thing as a poorly-maintained 60s-era bus.

Last edited by Bob from down south; 07-18-2008 at 08:51 AM..
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,245,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Unfortunately, Amtrak takes too long for the average family's 1 wk vacation. I am going to DC later this summer; I do not want to spend 4 days on a train coming and going. I worked too hard to get that vacation time. I want to be there and I want to go to the beach!
I think the trend is going to be for people to take that 1 week vacation closer to home. When a coast-to-coast airline flight's price finally reflects true costs, that $1,000+ per-seat economy fare is likey to deter a lot of folks who are already having their budgets squeezed on multiple fronts.

Sure, there will always be those people that think nothing of spending (and most likely borrowing) $7,500 for a family of four to spend a week in Orlando with Mickey. It's sort of like Vegas for families. It's fun while you're there, but the financial hangover ain't so fun.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Earth
1,644 posts, read 4,326,432 times
Reputation: 1566
I've pretty much got myself set up not to give a rat's a$$ about the cost of fuel. My 98 Tacoma 4x4 sits in the garage for weeks at a time unless I'm running consolidated errands or going hunting, fishing, or skiing.

I use motorcycles or bicycles to get back and forth to work, which is 8 miles away. I live in a ~1000sq ft house built in 1937...amazing how 'small' the living spaces were back then compared to now. It's efficient and cheap to heat and cool.

I guess if it came down to it I'd love to have a big ol' pickup truck that sucks gas, because it'd haul more and tow better, and I wouldn't use it all that much....but I don't really 'need' anything like that.

I look at my choice of vehicles as utilitarian tools rather than displays of material wealth/status/ego.
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