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Old 07-19-2008, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,147,178 times
Reputation: 35920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
And--that is why Americans are in debt up to their eyeballs, and fuel prices are going to keep going up.

I can't believe that people can't figure out that what they spend to fill their gas tank is only a small part of what exploding fuel prices and depleting reserves are going to do their living costs and lifestyle. Not surprising, since so many Americans are so isolated in their little world that they have no concept of how much energy it takes to grow and transport their food, manufacture all the crap they just HAVE to have, and keep our horribly energy-inefficient society running. When those "ostriches" finally do figure it out, it will be a really painful revelation--if not darned near fatal.
Well, I am not in debt up to my eyeballs. The only debt I have is my mortgage. All four cars are paid for.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 07-19-2008 at 10:05 PM..
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Weld County
58 posts, read 395,155 times
Reputation: 38
Hey Mr. Jazzlover, YOU dont know what my credit situation is. Well Smart A$$ i pay CASH to fill my rides. And pay CASH to fill the Racecar also! Ops, Racecar another bad word to you folks. But it runs on Methanol anyway thats kinda green isnt it?

1 race nite= 20 gal. (Fuel purchased in bulk 55 gal for 130.00)x 2.36= 47.20 paid cash and diddnt affect my credit.

BTW The road trip to Grandmas was GREAT!
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:54 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,357,988 times
Reputation: 9305
I'm quite glad you are debt-free. Me too. But there are many millions of Americans who are not--and EVERYONE is going to suffer/endure the inflation, shortages, and hardships our collectively foolhardy waste of resources is going to cause.

By the way, anyone in the US who thinks they are truly debt-free should consider the $300,000 or so per capita share of the national debt they must bear. That kinda ruins that warm, fuzzy feeling . . .
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,147,178 times
Reputation: 35920
Well, a number of us are personally debt-free. You have a knack, jazz, for looking at the dark side of things.
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Weld County
58 posts, read 395,155 times
Reputation: 38
Default Outlook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, a number of us are personally debt-free. You have a knack, jazz, for looking at the dark side of things.
Maybe he is the Ostrich with his head in the sand? Perty dark down there.

So Jazz dont group everyone together. Remember this is America and we are all at different points in out journey through life. What I choose to drive and how I pay for it diddnt affect you personally SO lighten up a little bit. When the radio station fades out when its playing you favorite song you were singing to, Loses that warm fuzzie feeling. And yes going to the Dentist...no warm fuzzies there either.

Last edited by Fastway57; 07-19-2008 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,245,953 times
Reputation: 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, I am not in debt up to my eyeballs. The only debt I have is my mortgage. All four cars are paid for.
And then later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Well, a number of us are personally debt-free. You have a knack, jazz, for looking at the dark side of things.
I'm missing how can you be "personally debt free" if you have a mortgage on your house. Amazing how the bankers have convinced the sheeple that owing hundreds of thousands of dollars on a house somehow doesn't count as debt.

I pose this question: if $4 a gal gas is really no big deal, why are the sheeple squealing like they just realized they're in a short line to the meat packing house? If food price spikes resulting from the spikes in all things petroleum...fuel, pesticides, fertilizers, and transport of input products and the crop to market...are no big deal, why all the noise? The sheeple should just pay their $5 for a loaf of bread and shut the **** up, already.

If you are truly "personally debt free" in America you are in the minority. That is a dark side, and a huge one at that. The nation is in serious debt...the portion of your taxes that goes straight into foreign coffers to pay the interest on that debt every year is both staggering and embarassing. The ostriches are those that can't see that.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:23 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,309,597 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
I'm missing how can you be "personally debt free" if you have a mortgage on your house. Amazing how the bankers have convinced the sheeple that owing hundreds of thousands of dollars on a house somehow doesn't count as debt.
Its the difference between good debt and bad debt.

Owing $10k on credit cards for last year's vacation and dining out every night = bad debt

Owing $15k on a car that's worth $12k and depreciating = bad debt

Owing $100k on a house that's worth $250k, costs you less than renting every month, and reduces your income taxes = not so bad
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,147,178 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
And then later...



I'm missing how can you be "personally debt free" if you have a mortgage on your house. Amazing how the bankers have convinced the sheeple that owing hundreds of thousands of dollars on a house somehow doesn't count as debt.

I pose this question: if $4 a gal gas is really no big deal, why are the sheeple squealing like they just realized they're in a short line to the meat packing house? If food price spikes resulting from the spikes in all things petroleum...fuel, pesticides, fertilizers, and transport of input products and the crop to market...are no big deal, why all the noise? The sheeple should just pay their $5 for a loaf of bread and shut the **** up, already.

If you are truly "personally debt free" in America you are in the minority. That is a dark side, and a huge one at that. The nation is in serious debt...the portion of your taxes that goes straight into foreign coffers to pay the interest on that debt every year is both staggering and embarassing. The ostriches are those that can't see that.
To answer the first, I think EscapeCalifornia said it well. Who is living anywhere for free? If you don't have a mortgage, you're probably renting. We have 9 years to go until the house is paid off.

As for the gas price issue, I think it's a case of media-backed hype. Few have sat down and done the math. Yes, it's a big percentage increase from a year ago, but the increase in cash outlay is not that much for a person of moderate means. Like all such increases, it's hitting the poor the hardest. Ditto the increase in food prices. As for the national debt, I am not personally responsible for paying it off. I am too busy raising my family and living my life to worry every night about my portion of the national debt.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,245,953 times
Reputation: 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Its the difference between good debt and bad debt.

Owing $10k on credit cards for last year's vacation and dining out every night = bad debt

Owing $15k on a car that's worth $12k and depreciating = bad debt

Owing $100k on a house that's worth $250k, costs you less than renting every month, and reduces your income taxes = not so bad

What about owing $350K on a house that's worth $250K and depreciating? Not an uncommon situation in today's America.

I've found that an amazing number of otherwise intelligent people are unable to do the math when it comes to cost comparisons between renting and a house purchase. When such things as maintenance costs, turnover costs (points, realtor ransom, upgrades/paint/staging, carrying costs while house sits empty on the market), landscaping costs, decorating costs etc are included--especially for those that move every 5 years or less--that cost comparison often heavily favors renting.

Add to that the fact that it rarely makes sense to pay the bank $1 in interest in order to save $0.15 in taxes. The federal tax deduction promotes home loanership, not home ownership. The only way you get a deduction is to pay interest to the banking industry. Quite the sweet little scam there. Howeowners without loans and renters get nothing.

The realty spin machine has had a lot of success marketing the mantra that buying is always better than renting. The truth is that in many cases it is not. And in many it is. But my experience is that most people are too emotional about the decision to make a decision based on sound economics.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,147,178 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
What about owing $350K on a house that's worth $250K and depreciating? Not an uncommon situation in today's America.

I've found that an amazing number of otherwise intelligent people are unable to do the math when it comes to cost comparisons between renting and a house purchase. When such things as maintenance costs, turnover costs (points, realtor ransom, upgrades/paint/staging, carrying costs while house sits empty on the market), landscaping costs, decorating costs etc are included--especially for those that move every 5 years or less--that cost comparison often heavily favors renting.

Add to that the fact that it rarely makes sense to pay the bank $1 in interest in order to save $0.15 in taxes. The federal tax deduction promotes home loanership, not home ownership. The only way you get a deduction is to pay interest to the banking industry. Quite the sweet little scam there. Howeowners without loans and renters get nothing.

The realty spin machine has had a lot of success marketing the mantra that buying is always better than renting. The truth is that in many cases it is not. And in many it is. But my experience is that most people are too emotional about the decision to make a decision based on sound economics.
You pay every one of those costs when renting, just indirectly. Plus you pay for the landlord's profit. I agree that buying is not always better than renting. I have a nephew who about lost his shirt buying a condo he could not afford about 25 yrs ago. But when I read about the rents for 2 BR condos in Denver being $1200+, I am glad I have my house payment which is considerably less for my 4 BR, SF home. Housing prices will eventually go up again. I haven't heard of any depreciation quite as steep as you describe in the metro Denver area.
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