The New West (Denver, Pueblo, Boulder: rental car, foreclosures, rental)

[rybert]

Can't we all be happy that we're not Texans?

(any Texans in the group?)

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by rybert

Can't we all be happy that we're not Texans?

(any Texans in the group?)

I can agree with that one!

[Idunn]

I'm reminded of the many ghost towns that populate the American west. Many of them in Colorado. Often sumptuous places with opera halls, many saloons, and attractions to rival any cosmopolitan city to the east. Usually built on mining, with high and grand hopes for the future, but when the ore inevitably played out so did the population. Some remnants of structures of huge timbers remain in weathered ruin, in some cases the crumbling facades built of brick and stone and thought to last longer.

Strangely, the intricately woven rock buildings of the ancient Anasazi may outlast them. But they too fell victim to changing circumstances.

I read with most interest the section of this report dealing with water, beginning on page 37. In the grand scheme of things that will probably be as important as mining once was to many of these former towns, and indeed vital to the existence of any civilization. Although this report details some of the challenges with water facing the inter mountain area, if anything it underplays the severity, and does not extend itself to likely unpleasant but real scenarios.

Any of these metropolitan areas exist for a reason, in result of various factors that have drawn people to live there. But in the flow of time humanity is very mobile and has always drifted to where opportunity is greatest. Although in this last I wonder as people so often pick the strangest places to live. Nevertheless it often comes down to resources needed to sustain a civilization. That we see today reflected in such cities as Phoenix, AZ, Las Vegas, NV or Denver, CO the result of a myriad of converging factors, not least the legacy of a great push into the west in the 19th century.

Maybe the citizens of these metro areas in a largely semi-arid land can come to terms with that required to survive in measure of limited resources, in a place traditionally as obviously harsh as it is beautiful.

[SortaMobile]

Back to license plate combinations: I say it's the prisoners who now decide which alpha series goes where. For why are there so many truck plates here in the captivating climate capital of Canon City that start out "FKR-"?

In the latest issue of Time magazine, there is an article that describes the current economic and ecological woes that plague Florida. It brings to mind the words of New Mexico native Henry John Deutchendorf:

"...to bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land"

(from song Rocky Mountain High)

Yes, those words can smack of elitism, of "I've got mine, so stay the hell out!" But I prefer to think of them as standing against the real estate fueled Ponzi scheme that seems quite prevalent in many Colorado areas...growth for growth's sake.

Or, in a simpler word, greed. In my former home, Iowa, it's not how many people we can pack in, it's pigs. Thousands of head under roof. Thousands of these animal factories across Iowa. 16 million hogs call Iowa home. Why, isn't that about th population of....wait, I'm not getting into state-bashing! Anyway, the smells don't waft for a few yards anymore, it's miles. And then there's how much corn that can be produced, etc, etc. What does that do for the water? Makes it nutrient-rich and not very appeal;ing for recreation,as well as being a major contributor to the dead zone in the Gulf off the Mississippi delta.

Anyway, I hope to see no Iowa-bashing in these forums. (unless I do it) It's a long shot, but it could be they'll figure out back there that clean water is a valuable resource, and there may actually be enough to export. (certainly true this year) Let's just say in Iowa, we look kindly on our friends. (veiled threat off)

[Katarina Witt]

I don't mean this to be snide, SortaMobile, but I might remind you that YOU also came here from somewhere else, and quite recently, too. This anti-native stuff has been going around longer than the 28 yrs I've been here. The issue has been discussed before. It always goes in circles. Someone pointed out that even the Native Americans came here from somewhere else.

[Shuffler]

Our "New West" sucks. People suck.

Everybody should embrace the fact that they suck, and just try to suck a little less.

[downtownnola]

I found this article very interesting... I do indeed beleive that the front range will continue to grow in importance as our population continues to grow, and we continue to attract a diverse, educated workforce.

I thought that Livecontent and Jazzlover also brought up an interesting discussion about the "know it all's" from the front range. I moved to Denver from Cheyenne, WY and beleive me: most people from Wyoming think of people from Colorado in the same way that people from Colorado think of Californians. People from Wyoming are convinced that people from the front range are planning a mass exodus to more "peaceful" areas as the front range becomes more crowded and people want to escape from the rat race.

I had also heard the term "geenie" many times from locals in Wyoming. One time, my dad and I were driving down the interestate just outside of Cheyenne and as a car went flying past us. Before the car had passed, my dad proclaimed, "I bet it's a greenie." Sure enough it was... (People in Wyoming are convinced that front range drivers are the worst drivers on the planet, as we drive much faster and more aggressively than they do there).

I also remember the "county coded" license plates in Colorado. I was once told that the first letter had something to do with the county name, but I never understood that as I remember that Mesa County had a "U" on the plate, and Larimer County had a "F."

[livecontent]

I never thought much about the idea of other people in the west having a dislike to people from Denver because they felt that they were the "big city know it alls". As Jazzlover and Downtownola points out it is very true.

I have to remember that I grew up near Buffalo in Western New York. This area is in a state where most of the population is in New York City. Today NYC has about 9 million and Buffalo, the second largest city has about 270,000--Buffalo was double when I grew up. So there was a big disparity between population dispersal in the the state back then, which became apparant in attitudes and culture. Today the difference is even more, as NYC grows bigger, and the rest of the state has a population loss.

People of NYC are perceived as arrogant and "know it all" and they are arrogant to the rest of the state. They have an accent that is strongly perceived by the people of "upstate", as they love to say. Western New York has an accent and a culture more attuned to Ohio and Western Pennsylvania.

Unfortunately, when I traveled and moved I was more perceived as having the attitudes of a New York City person--even though my upbringing and environment was different. My problem is that I was born in NYC and lived there in early childhood and formed an early New Yawk accent, went to college near "the city", and worked in Manhattan. So my accent is more perceived as the typical New Yorker but in truth I am something else--whatever that else is. Of course, the Italian Sicilian ancestry does make a definite mark on my behavior which adds to the perception of a real New Yorker.

Many people in the rest of the country think all New Yorkers are from a city. No, some New Yorkers are from small cities, small towns, rural and farming areas. Many people are surprised to know that the Appalachin Mountains extend to NY and that NY has big farming areas. I looked this up: there are more Native Americans in NY than Colorado.

So I would say be not so quick to judge when you hear people come from certain states. California and Texas, for example, have many rural farming communities which shape the attitudes and behavior different from people from LA. Just as you cannot assume that all people from Kansas are from small towns--they may never have seen a farm but grew up in Kansas City. After being here in Colorado for years, I do see a difference between very rural folks and the people who grew up in Denver.

You cannot also be sure where the person first originated or their family culture and attitudes where formed. I moved up here from Texas and was a Texas resident. Does that mean I am a Texan????

Let see, can I get it right:

"Y'ALL, Yad know what I mean, Yo, Yad looking at me, Ya mutter too"

Na, It ain't goin' work----- "I h'am whata h'am, I h'am..."----well not .."popeye, the sailor man"--- but----- "a loud mouth New Yawk man"

Yo, no mouth from ya!! I just ate my spinach.....with a little garlic and olive oil (no, I did not mean what you are thinking)

Livecontent

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by downtownnola

I also remember the "county coded" license plates in Colorado. I was once told that the first letter had something to do with the county name, but I never understood that as I remember that Mesa County had a "U" on the plate, and Larimer County had a "F."

Each county had assigned letters. When we first came here in 1980, each county had a primary (M for Boulder County) and then a series of second letters (say A-F). Then there were too many so they added a 3rd letter. I remember when the "MF" series came out. We once saw a Saab with some big dog in it with an "MFY" plate. You can imagine what we called that. (The license was something like MFY 123.) Later on, they eliminated the space between letters and numbers and added a 4th number, e.g. MFY1234. We have a couple plates like that still on our 1998 cars. The police said those were too hard to read, so I heard. At some point in time between then and 2003, when we bought another car, they changed the system, so now it's 3 letters, space, 3 numbers, but no code. At least that's my understanding of it.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by livecontent

So I would say be not so quick to judge when you hear people come from certain states. California and Texas, for example, have many rural farming communities which shape the attitudes and behavior different from people from LA. Just as you cannot assume that all people from Kansas are from small towns--they may never have seen a farm but grew up in Kansas City. After being here in Colorado for years, I do see a difference between very rural folks and the people who grew up in Denver.

This is quite true! My husband grew up in Omaha, Nebraska. He lived right in the city. He lived as urban a lifestyle as anyone in any big city. I like to say he is a "city boy from Nebraska".