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Old 08-01-2008, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Western, Colorado
1,599 posts, read 3,104,828 times
Reputation: 958

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
And yet in the 2000 census, Colorado still ranked #37 out of 50 for population density and was just over half the national average at 41 people per square mile. Even using your number of 4.8M people today, that's still only 46 people per square mile.


List of U.S. states by population density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Going by the population density number isn't an accurate way to see the density of cities, as it is skewed by all the protected land. BLM, National Forest, etc. Colorado, I believe, has the second most amount of protected space after AK.
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Old 08-01-2008, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Ned CO @ 8300'
2,075 posts, read 5,100,955 times
Reputation: 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAgeRedneck View Post
My wife nad I were recently vacationing in Crested Butte. On one of our hikes she stopped, looked across the valley and said, 'Wow, what a great view'. I jokingly replied, 'Where? All I see is a bunch of big rocks covered with patches of snow and trees blocking the horizon'.
Reminds me of a trip to Yellowstone several years ago. As we were sitting above Yellowstone Falls photographing the stunning views, a tour bus pulled up. One old codger walked by and I heard him grumble "Nothin' but scenery. If ya seen one damn falls ya seen 'em all."

Sorry I am late to this thread. I would have liked to read the comments that have been cut. I've lived in Colorado for 26 years. I may not like all of the changes I've seen over the years, but it's a heck of a lot better than where I came from and I can't imagine living anywhere else.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:03 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,309,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoracer51 View Post
Going by the population density number isn't an accurate way to see the density of cities, as it is skewed by all the protected land. BLM, National Forest, etc. Colorado, I believe, has the second most amount of protected space after AK.
Ok. I still did some city vs. city population density comparisons between Dever suburbs and cities in Orange County. The OC cities were typically twice as dense. We're talking suburban city vs. suburban city and Denver still isn't that dense. And the entire STATE of Colorado only has half as many people as Los Angeles county.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:36 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,796 times
Reputation: 12
I have lived in MANY different states and we just moved out to Colorado from Virginia about a year ago. So far I don't like Colorado. Now everyone who lives here is going to jump on my back and get all defensive about their state. It is polluted, high crime rate, have to speak spanish to survive, lack of enforcement of laws, poor educational system, though it may be sunny all the time it is either WAY too cold or WAY too hot with little to no rain and the grass is always brown, shall I go on? Now not ALL of Colorado is this way. If you go WAY outside of the city area into the mountains and into the wealthy communities, then Colorado is clean and nice and well kept and everything seems to be better. But most people are not wealthy. So if you want to move to Colorado make sure you have a lot of money so you can find an ideal location to live. Otherwise you will deal with the high crime, overpopulation of illegals, and all the other stuff I mentioned. Like I said...I have lived in MANY states ...NONE that I have disliked quite so much as I dislike Colorado. And all states deal with the issues I mentioned to SOME extent.....but it seems Colorado deals with these issues to a rather LARGE extent. I wish I could move back to Virginia where there is ocean AND mountains AND lots of tall trees with rain and it is clean and well kept and the educational system at least teaches the kids to READ!! Even Washington DC was better than this! However, I am here for now and can't do anything about it and I am TRYING to like it....but so far it's not working.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:41 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,309,597 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoDweller View Post
I have lived in MANY different states and we just moved out to Colorado from Virginia about a year ago. So far I don't like Colorado. Now everyone who lives here is going to jump on my back and get all defensive about their state. It is polluted, high crime rate, have to speak spanish to survive, lack of enforcement of laws, poor educational system, though it may be sunny all the time it is either WAY too cold or WAY too hot with little to no rain and the grass is always brown, shall I go on? Now not ALL of Colorado is this way. If you go WAY outside of the city area into the mountains and into the wealthy communities, then Colorado is clean and nice and well kept and everything seems to be better. But most people are not wealthy. So if you want to move to Colorado make sure you have a lot of money so you can find an ideal location to live. Otherwise you will deal with the high crime, overpopulation of illegals, and all the other stuff I mentioned. Like I said...I have lived in MANY states ...NONE that I have disliked quite so much as I dislike Colorado. And all states deal with the issues I mentioned to SOME extent.....but it seems Colorado deals with these issues to a rather LARGE extent. I wish I could move back to Virginia where there is ocean AND mountains AND lots of tall trees with rain and it is clean and well kept and the educational system at least teaches the kids to READ!! Even Washington DC was better than this! However, I am here for now and can't do anything about it and I am TRYING to like it....but so far it's not working.
Where in Colorado are you? That doesn't sound like any of the parts of Denver or Colorado Springs I've visited except for the dry, brown grass parts. Sounds like you landed in a slum.
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:10 PM
 
Location: The 719
17,874 posts, read 27,262,848 times
Reputation: 17122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoDweller View Post
I have lived in MANY different states and we just moved out to Colorado from Virginia about a year ago.

So far I don't like Colorado. Now everyone who lives here is going to jump on my back and get all defensive about their state.

It is polluted, high crime rate, have to speak spanish to survive, lack of enforcement of laws, poor educational system, though it may be sunny all the time it is either WAY too cold or WAY too hot with little to no rain and the grass is always brown, shall I go on?

Now not ALL of Colorado is this way. If you go WAY outside of the city area into the mountains and into the wealthy communities, then Colorado is clean and nice and well kept and everything seems to be better. But most people are not wealthy. So if you want to move to Colorado make sure you have a lot of money so you can find an ideal location to live. Otherwise you will deal with the high crime, overpopulation of illegals, and all the other stuff I mentioned.

Like I said...I have lived in MANY states ...NONE that I have disliked quite so much as I dislike Colorado. And all states deal with the issues I mentioned to SOME extent.....but it seems Colorado deals with these issues to a rather LARGE extent.

I wish I could move back to Virginia where there is ocean AND mountains AND lots of tall trees with rain and it is clean and well kept and the educational system at least teaches the kids to READ!!

Even Washington DC was better than this! However, I am here for now and can't do anything about it and I am TRYING to like it....but so far it's not working.
I, for one am not gonna jump your back. You have an opinion. Well, that's an understatement. You have a lot of opinions. I'd rep you for speaking your mind, but my tank is empty now.

I had to paragraph that a bit so I can break it down. I loved living in Denver. After 15 years I decided to head back down to the lowly ghetto that is Pueblo, while still on a Denver salary. Then, the next thing you know it... I got priced out of Denver and the Ghetto became posh!

Like the saying goes, the rich and the poor can live anywhere. Why is that? Well, I'll tell you one thing; you won't see the poor whinning about stubbing their toe on a pebble.

I lived in McLean Virginia for a summer and had a blast back in 86. The humidity was something. Good thing I was young and in shape back then. As far as weather, I thought you easterners could handle your extremes. Especially with your humidity and stuff. I'm older now and much less tolerant to extremes, but in the winter here I always acclimate. If I'm cold, I put on a coat. If I'm hot, I turn up the AC. I'm not trying to be smart-allick here; I just think that God does a pretty good job overall.

As far as education, it served me well. I'm too smart for my own good. Me arse is smarter than most too. They put degrees on a thermometer and you know where they stick those things. See what I mean? Just KIDDING! But when you generalize about the language and the utter failure of all Colorado schools and compare them to DC, it just doesn't compute. Let me put it this way; Always and Never are usually a lie.

Pollution and crime rate; I'm not going there anymore. I'm tired of arguing about my town's notorious reputation. Every town has to have a section that's expensive so those who have the money can feel safer and enjoy the fruits of their labor. Those less fortunate are certainly still valid human beings. Crime is unfortunate, but you've got to look at the whole picture. There's politics involved as well. The rich like having a place to go be a bad boy too, so... it's not a one-sided thing. You mean to tell me DC and the Alexandria-Falls Church, McLean, etc. areas don't have crime or pollution? How's that beltway traffic these days? How's that sprawl?

We went to Ocean City Maryland when we were out there. Not bad. I like the southern Florida Gulf coast better. I like NoCals beaches WAY better. I also like their tall trees way better (Redwoods). But can I afford to live there? No. Nice place to visit. Go look at my pic threads in the California and SF forums if you'd like to see what I'm talking about.

So in your year in Colorado, tell us what you have done for fun. Let's lay this all out here. We've got time.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:36 PM
 
3,459 posts, read 5,754,490 times
Reputation: 6677
Quote:
I'd rep you for speaking your mind, but my tank is empty now.
I gave one for you...
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Old 08-02-2008, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Road Warrior
2,016 posts, read 5,561,766 times
Reputation: 836
Here's my two cents as a Native Coloradan. The aspect of influx of population, suburbia sprawl, etc. does make me sad, but also the attitude some people have of they are better than others such as the Natives attitude to transplants (No Vacancy) also makes me sad. This is America you can live anywhere you want and if I move somewhere I would hope my neighbors welcome me as I would welcome a good neighbor into my community.

The fact that Colorado has a steady flow of in-migrantion as well as international migration is the quality of life. It means Colorado is a great place to live. There are jobs, there is scenary, simply put there is a lil of everything, the great outdoors with the convenience of a city. A reverse trend would be very negative for a state such as the case of "rural flight" in the midwest. However although I see growth as good I propose that there is a "healthy" grow index where the cities and state can plan development, before a city booms and sprawls outward out of control, the city and state can actually widen roads, place infrastructure, plan housing versus open spaces and provide jobs for those trickling in with a "healthy" growth index.

One way to look at it, Colorado has two waves of migration, one of a steady growth (births+inmigration) about 100,000 a year adding about 1 million people every 10 years. This is anticipated. The second unaccounted for is a economic boom cycle where the next cycle whenever it is say 2012-2020 will account for a bump in business development, second home owners and in-migration. We understand that there are environmental impacts and the region is very environmentally conscious, but the social impacts are less drawn out and more theorized.

For example, Colorado's K-12 student population is supposed to grow to 1 million by 2025, which means from now til 2025, several new public schools will have to be added everywhere, Douglas County alone predicts it will have to add about 5 new K-12 public schools within the next 5 year to prevent overcrowding, this is a necessity for the quality of education for your kids, but 5 schools in 5 years for the county accounting for about a 170 million project is pushing the envelope. In recent polls about 2/3 of Coloradans see we need more urban planning but what are we doing with this trend? Well local and state politics also see growth as a good thing, yet they deny there is such a thing as a "healthy" growth rate, basically growth to them is prosperity, which it certainly is, more people = more taxes. They seek to make a name out of themselves where they can take credit for the exposure and boom in Colorado. Whether one may see growth as a good thing or a bad thing may all be a matter of prespective, but it is undeniable that the short-term perspective is always the cheap way out and thinking out of the box is a method needed much for a long term vision which may take time and money but in the long run is a win-win situation for you and your children.

"We do not inherit the land from our ancestors, we borrow them from our children" - Native American Proverb

Rural exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Population Colorado Forecasts
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Old 08-02-2008, 11:42 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,357,988 times
Reputation: 9305
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerDuke08 View Post
Here's my two cents as a Native Coloradan. The aspect of influx of population, suburbia sprawl, etc. does make me sad, but also the attitude some people have of they are better than others such as the Natives attitude to transplants (No Vacancy) also makes me sad. This is America you can live anywhere you want and if I move somewhere I would hope my neighbors welcome me as I would welcome a good neighbor into my community.

The fact that Colorado has a steady flow of in-migrantion as well as international migration is the quality of life. It means Colorado is a great place to live. There are jobs, there is scenary, simply put there is a lil of everything, the great outdoors with the convenience of a city. A reverse trend would be very negative for a state such as the case of "rural flight" in the midwest. However although I see growth as good I propose that there is a "healthy" grow index where the cities and state can plan development, before a city booms and sprawls outward out of control, the city and state can actually widen roads, place infrastructure, plan housing versus open spaces and provide jobs for those trickling in with a "healthy" growth index.

One way to look at it, Colorado has two waves of migration, one of a steady growth (births+inmigration) about 100,000 a year adding about 1 million people every 10 years. This is anticipated. The second unaccounted for is a economic boom cycle where the next cycle whenever it is say 2012-2020 will account for a bump in business development, second home owners and in-migration. We understand that there are environmental impacts and the region is very environmentally conscious, but the social impacts are less drawn out and more theorized.

For example, Colorado's K-12 student population is supposed to grow to 1 million by 2025, which means from now til 2025, several new public schools will have to be added everywhere, Douglas County alone predicts it will have to add about 5 new K-12 public schools within the next 5 year to prevent overcrowding, this is a necessity for the quality of education for your kids, but 5 schools in 5 years for the county accounting for about a 170 million project is pushing the envelope. In recent polls about 2/3 of Coloradans see we need more urban planning but what are we doing with this trend? Well local and state politics also see growth as a good thing, yet they deny there is such a thing as a "healthy" growth rate, basically growth to them is prosperity, which it certainly is, more people = more taxes. They seek to make a name out of themselves where they can take credit for the exposure and boom in Colorado. Whether one may see growth as a good thing or a bad thing may all be a matter of prespective, but it is undeniable that the short-term perspective is always the cheap way out and thinking out of the box is a method needed much for a long term vision which may take time and money but in the long run is a win-win situation for you and your children.

"We do not inherit the land from our ancestors, we borrow them from our children" - Native American Proverb

Rural exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Population Colorado Forecasts
I can't agree with this post. At some point, population growth no longer is a positive force, but a very negative one. That point is reached when the population's demand for resources exceeds the supplies of resources that are available. A strong argument can be made that we have reached, and probably passed that point when it comes to water resources in Colorado--and most of the West. I also disagree with the predictions of Colorado's projected population growth in the years ahead. Those predictions assume the continued availability of resources--water, energy, and so forth--at levels equal to or higher than current. That is a blatantly false assumption--and if we continue to permit and encourage the "stupid" kind of growth that we embrace now, our descendants will face a miserable existence in Colorado, if they can live here at all.

Sure, Colorado might be able to sustain a population double what it is now, but only at a much degraded material living standard than we have now--and with a grossly degraded natural environment. If we want the mid-21st Century Colorado to resemble today's most impoverished regions of Mexico, all we have to do is continue down our present path--we'll get there.

When someone says Colorado's population growth is "only" 2% a year, I about vomit. Using the "Rule of 70" (divide the numeric percentage growth rate into 70, in this case 70 / 2 = 35), the state population will double in 35 years. If the rate is 3% ( 70 / 3 = 23.3 ) 23.3 years. The reason, of course, is that population growth is exponential, not arithmetic.

Quote:
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function."
--Dr. Albert A. Bartlett, Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Colorado; World Population Balance Board of Advisors
I don't mind being called "anti-growth" because the kind of growth we now embrace can only lead to the destruction of everything decent, cherished, and desired in Colorado. There can be no other ultimate outcome.
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Old 08-02-2008, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Road Warrior
2,016 posts, read 5,561,766 times
Reputation: 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I can't agree with this post. At some point, population growth no longer is a positive force, but a very negative one. That point is reached when the population's demand for resources exceeds the supplies of resources that are available. A strong argument can be made that we have reached, and probably passed that point when it comes to water resources in Colorado--and most of the West. I also disagree with the predictions of Colorado's projected population growth in the years ahead. Those predictions assume the continued availability of resources--water, energy, and so forth--at levels equal to or higher than current. That is a blatantly false assumption--and if we continue to permit and encourage the "stupid" kind of growth that we embrace now, our descendants will face a miserable existence in Colorado, if they can live here at all.

Sure, Colorado might be able to sustain a population double what it is now, but only at a much degraded material living standard than we have now--and with a grossly degraded natural environment. If we want the mid-21st Century Colorado to resemble today's most impoverished regions of Mexico, all we have to do is continue down our present path--we'll get there.

When someone says Colorado's population growth is "only" 2% a year, I about vomit. Using the "Rule of 70" (divide the numeric percentage growth rate into 70, in this case 70 / 2 = 35), the state population will double in 35 years. If the rate is 3% ( 70 / 3 = 23.3 ) 23.3 years. The reason, of course, is that population growth is exponential, not arithmetic.



I don't mind being called "anti-growth" because the kind of growth we now embrace can only lead to the destruction of everything decent, cherished, and desired in Colorado. There can be no other ultimate outcome.
While I do feel ya on the anti-growth part, what is your solution?

Your math is concurrent with the projections of state, CO should easily hit 8 million people in 2035 according to projections. However the breaking point is all a matter of perspective, at a population of 1,000,000 the State of Montana already feels what is it's breaking point. That is not something I am going to debate.

100,000 is a number we have to work with - that is what we have. I do not feel 100,000 a year growth is sustainable but you can be disgrunted about people moving in to Colorado, you can tell them to move away, it's NOT going to happen, people will continue to move into Colorado and that is something everyone who lives in the state has to deal with, native or non-native. Perhaps you and I won't be around when Colorado actually "breaks", but my mindset of is to think in the long-run which consists of thinking of how it's going to look like in your descendants generation when we reach that 8 million mark.

Part of urban planning is containment. It does not mean there will be no growth or negative growth but where there is a sustainable growth, where land developers can only build housing in limited area. What goes with growth is also more regulation, not something we Coloradans like but it's something we have to deal with. Perhaps you might not see 100,000 a year decrease to 0, but you might see such as 100,000 a year decrease to 75,000. That works in everybody's favor. Immigration reform will help us a whole lot as well but that's on a federal level as for McCain or Obama working that deal out, it's not looking too bright.

Colorado Population and Immigration Data, Projections and Graphs - CAIR - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform

Last edited by RangerDuke08; 08-02-2008 at 07:03 PM..
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