Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-01-2010, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,350,175 times
Reputation: 4395

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Again you'd have to come up with number showing building a railroad from Pueblo to Monarch would make financial sense and something that the current highway doesn't serve.

How many people travel from Pueblo to Monarch on a weekend to go skiing?

And of those people how many would give up the car and take a train?

How much would that train cost and how would it make a profit?

And so on.

The problem is we have to get beyond saying "it's a good idea" to a proper business plan that can show it is a good idea.

One thing that is clear is the USA is out of money. We need to start focusing on getting rid of debt and binge spending on frivolous projects like this.
I completely agree with you that if it would get built there would have to be studies done and we would have to find a way to pay for it. That being said ideas get started because of conversations like this and finding that it "seems like a good idea". Then if it gets enough traction the formal studies can begin and it can go from there.

This is just the first step in a plan that would not even be considered till the HSR was completed after 2020, I understand that. I am just saying that I hope once the HSR is done they work on a plan for some kind of train from Pueblo to Monarch as I think it would be just as much a benefit for that corridor as a HSR would be for the I-70 one.

Last edited by Josseppie; 04-02-2010 at 12:00 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-01-2010, 11:30 PM
 
3,459 posts, read 5,754,490 times
Reputation: 6677
This isn't Colorado specific, but it does pertain to the conversation.

Caltrain goes broke, will likely wipe out weekend, night and midday trains - San Jose Mercury News
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2010, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,350,175 times
Reputation: 4395
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
So basically when it comes down to it you want the government(taxpayers) to spend tens of billions on making Pueblo a "hub" since Pueblo was unable to do it on it's own.

I don't see that as a good allocation of resources.
Pueblo would have to pay for the local improvements to the train station and build the local Light Rail, I am sure we would qualify for some matching federal grants just like Denver is for Union Station.

As far as the macro level, there is no way Pueblo could pay for a HSR between Fort Collins and Pueblo and Pueblo and Albuquerque and that is not our place to build it on our own as it would benefit more then just Pueblo. We just happen to be in the right location to get the hub out of it.

In the end this would help all the cities from Fort Collins to Albuquerque, I just focus on what it would mean for Pueblo because I live here.

Last edited by Josseppie; 04-02-2010 at 12:53 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 11:53 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,357,988 times
Reputation: 9305
Josseppie loves to have everybody else pay for everything he wants, especially all the growth he wants for his town. Whenever you read the words "federal grants," "federal money," "government money," "federal project" in his posts, he means you and I get to pay for what he wants, not him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,350,175 times
Reputation: 4395
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Josseppie loves to have everybody else pay for everything he wants, especially all the growth he wants for his town. Whenever you read the words "federal grants," "federal money," "government money," "federal project" in his posts, he means you and I get to pay for what he wants, not him.
Every city and state tries to get matching federal grants, that is how our system is set up. The HSR in Colorado and New Mexico and lighrt rail in Pueblo would be no different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 02:47 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,575,838 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Josseppie loves to have everybody else pay for everything he wants, especially all the growth he wants for his town. Whenever you read the words "federal grants," "federal money," "government money," "federal project" in his posts, he means you and I get to pay for what he wants, not him.
Of course, that's that just good old fashioned liberalism. They don't have any idea what the value of money is, nor basic business principles and see the government as a all mighty power above them who if they "behave" dispenses goodies to them in the form of grants and other instruments paid for by a mythical green paper made in a magic factory of which there is no end to.

A lot of that is symptomatic of a "cargo cult" mentality.

Quoting wikipedia:

From time to time, the term "cargo cult" is invoked as an English language idiom to mean any group of people who imitate the superficial exterior of a process or system without having any understanding of the underlying substance.

The inception of cargo cults often is defined as being based on a flawed model of causation, being the confusion between the logical concepts of necessary condition and sufficient condition when aiming to obtain a certain result.

I'd say the reason we are in a depression now is that people have lost the concepts of profit and loss, good business sense and self sufficiency.

To them building a train to have a new toy is all that matters. They don't care whether it is financially viable, whether a large number of people would really use it, whether current systems in place are efficient. Doesn't matter. Just raid the state and federal treasury so we can collapse the whole system and have future generations suffer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,350,175 times
Reputation: 4395
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Of course, that's that just good old fashioned liberalism. They don't have any idea what the value of money is, nor basic business principles and see the government as a all mighty power above them who if they "behave" dispenses goodies to them in the form of grants and other instruments paid for by a mythical green paper made in a magic factory of which there is no end to.

A lot of that is symptomatic of a "cargo cult" mentality.

Quoting wikipedia:

From time to time, the term "cargo cult" is invoked as an English language idiom to mean any group of people who imitate the superficial exterior of a process or system without having any understanding of the underlying substance.

The inception of cargo cults often is defined as being based on a flawed model of causation, being the confusion between the logical concepts of necessary condition and sufficient condition when aiming to obtain a certain result.

I'd say the reason we are in a depression now is that people have lost the concepts of profit and loss, good business sense and self sufficiency.

To them building a train to have a new toy is all that matters. They don't care whether it is financially viable, whether a large number of people would really use it, whether current systems in place are efficient. Doesn't matter. Just raid the state and federal treasury so we can collapse the whole system and have future generations suffer.
Perhaps that is true for some liberals that is not true for me as I want the HSR because I have seen how it has helped other corridors in the United States and Europe and I believe it could do the same for us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 05:58 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,746,347 times
Reputation: 4580
Its going to be sad when other parts of the US start building there corridors up and you guys still don't have one. The Investors will be attracted to this line and invest billions in development along it. Its happened in the Northeast , it will happen there. It certainly won't be HSR , but it will be Regional Rail , HSR is anything above 130mph in the Rail Community. Denver seems to be forging ahead ,with Regional / Light Rail that alone will bring billions investments , but the regional needs a small to medium Regional Rail system to spread the growth, otherwise Denver will take all the credit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,350,175 times
Reputation: 4395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Its going to be sad when other parts of the US start building there corridors up and you guys still don't have one. The Investors will be attracted to this line and invest billions in development along it. Its happened in the Northeast , it will happen there. It certainly won't be HSR , but it will be Regional Rail , HSR is anything above 130mph in the Rail Community. Denver seems to be forging ahead ,with Regional / Light Rail that alone will bring billions investments , but the regional needs a small to medium Regional Rail system to spread the growth, otherwise Denver will take all the credit.
With any large project like this there will always be NIMBY's, I am sure the northeast had a few when they developed their HSR. So don't worry as Colorado and New Mexico will build the two main HSR corridors that will meet in Pueblo. That is one reason the front range urban corridor is in the 5 fastest growing corridors in the country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 08:17 PM
 
138 posts, read 338,440 times
Reputation: 40
The Acela train in the northeast is quite outdated and very slow compared to modern trains in Europe. I hope they can upgrade it as some point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top