Front Range / High Speed Rail (Denver, Colorado Springs: zoning, storage, parking)

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Why do you insist on going back in time with trains that were used in the last generation? As far as the interstate system, I will let the future worry about what they think of us having them. All I can say is I am glad they are here as it makes my trips to Denver easy.

Finally, you are so incorrect on the budget. Again this is not the right thread to talk about the budget except where it impacts HSR and rather Colorado gets a HSR or not will not hurt the federal budget as the problem is not discretionary spending where the HSR funding comes under but entitlements and defense. In fact if they would get their act together and cut entitlements and defense like it has to they would have plenty of money to build a complete HSR netowrk in the U.S. including the one here in Colorado and New Mexico with the hub in Pueblo connecting to Amtrak.

Really the debate over whether a high speed train should be built or not, is pointless to argue.

Why? We don't have the money. Our national debt equals our economy and long term obligations are well in excess of that. The fat needs to be trimmed from the government, not porked up. Stuff like this is a boondoggle that never repay the costs.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

Really the debate over whether a high speed train should be built or not, is pointless to argue.

Why? We don't have the money. Our national debt equals our economy and long term obligations are well in excess of that. The fat needs to be trimmed from the government, not porked up. Stuff like this is a boondoggle that never repay the costs.

Infrastructure is not pork and HSR can run on profit....so it would not be a waste.... I think Regional Rail / Intercity Rail would work better along the I25 Corridor. You don't need alot of people to generate a profitable train....you need upgraded tracks , flat fares , and stable power source...most likely electricity....

15-60mph > Subway , Light Rail , Streetcar (good for distances of 4-15mi) > Exceptions are in the Northeast where lines can be combined as a Regional Rail / Light Rail line , then lines can be as long as 50 mi
40-120mph > Regional Rail (good for distances of 15-90mi) > Exceptions are if the region is dense or cities are too close for Intercity / HSR
80-120mph > Intercity Rail (good for distances of 90-250mi) > Exceptions are if the area or corridor isn't dense enough to support regional rail , but can support Intercity Rail
120-200mph > High Speed Rail (good for distances of 250-400mi)
200mph+ > Ultra High Speed Rail (good for distances of 400mi+)

[CAVA1990]

Money isn't the issue. A major reason it's not going to happen is there's no politically connected industry lobbying group pushing to overcome hurdles and divert funding from other areas. Companies that build rail infrastructure just aren't that hooked into the government the way defense contractors and the highway lobby are.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

The people using it to and from Bronco games is only one segment of the population who will use the HSR and possibly the smallest.

In all fairness, you're the one who has frequently given as a major reason for building HSR, people from Pueblo and Colorado Springs who could then go for dinner and evening out in Denver (or the reverse).

If reasons like that are the justification, then I'm opposed, and I'm generally in favor of HSR projects.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

Really the debate over whether a high speed train should be built or not, is pointless to argue.

Why? We don't have the money. Our national debt equals our economy and long term obligations are well in excess of that. The fat needs to be trimmed from the government, not porked up. Stuff like this is a boondoggle that never repay the costs.

HSR is not the reason this country is in debt as its the entitlements and defense. In fact having a HSR in Colorado would make the economy stronger bringing more money to all levels of government.

[phetaroi]

To the moderator -- we have gone from posters disagreeing and saying to other posters "you're wrong" (which is healthy debate), to saying to other posters, "you're ignorant". Perhaps it's time to consider, unfortunately, closing the thread.

[CosmicWizard]

IMO, closing a thread ( unless requested by the OP ) at the request of someone not likeing the direction it is going seems like a dis-service to those who are willing participating. Rather than requesting that the thread be closed, consider just skipping this one. There are likely to be many other threads that are not offensive to you.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

IMO, closing a thread ( unless requested by the OP ) at the request of someone not likeing the direction it is going seems like a dis-service to those who are willing participating. Rather than requesting that the thread be closed, consider just skipping this one. There are likely to be many other threads that are not offensive to you.

I agree with you, Cosmic. I also do not consider "ignorant" a pejorative term. It means "not knowledgeable." There are plenty of things that I freely admit being "ignorant" about. That does not make me stupid, but it does mean that I refrain from commenting about those things about which I am "ignorant"--that is, unknowing about. That said, rail transportation is one thing about which I am quite knowledgeable, and I make no apologies when I state an opinion based on that knowledge. I generally make no comments on C-D about anything upon which I do not have fairly extensive knowledge. That is a bit of personal restraint that I use that I wish some other posters on this forum would exercise.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

HSR is not the reason this country is in debt as its the entitlements and defense. In fact having a HSR in Colorado would make the economy stronger bringing more money to all levels of government.

It doesn't really matter where the debt came from for this conversation, what matters is that we are in deep debt and we can't afford just to throw money at all these people's pet projects just because they want them.

Look at Japan right now, with 200% debt to GDP. It would be a lot easier for them to recover from what happened there if they were not so financially decrepit.

At the state, local and federal level, government spending needs to be reigned in and the desire for shiny toys to be put away, until some financial sanity is restored.

The huge costs in putting in an HSR on the Front Range compared to the value of it, is about zero. There is nothing it does, not already done by the current transportation system. It does squat to move goods and services around the state and does a pitiful job of moving people.

I can't remember the numbers, but back in several instances where they tried to fund a train up to Summit County and Vail from Denver. Already transportation is handled by airplane to Eagle Airport, van shuttle services and rental cars. Those ski hills can only handle so many people per day anyways(20000 in Vail is max). After doing the numbers there was no way they could make any rational business case for it, to support a train that most days of the year would hardly get used and even on "busy" days, would not be the only transport option.

I can't think of anyone in Denver with any reason to go to Pueblo, much less Colorado Springs. I'm sure some might need to here and there for business reasons, but most people are not going to want to bother with taking a train, driving to the station, getting on the train, riding up, then taking a taxi to their final destination. By the time they do all that they can drive.

[CAVA1990]

One thing people forget about the Northeast Corridor is that a huge number of folks in New York don't own a car and that most of those traveling to it are terrified at the thought of driving there. I don't believe that situation exists in CO.